KellysEye
Active member
Long distance sailing we spent £1,000 a month but it was paid for by rental of a flat and house.
Sailing around the Med with a 4.5k budget
- Thread starter sailaboutvic
- Start date
shan
Well-known member
Eat the cat... apparently they taste remarkably like chicken. You solve 2 problems: feeding the cat and the next few meals.Me taking the Micheal , NO WAY ...
hey mybe your SWMBO and I could do gigs while you and christine do some bar work , now that might work .
Some years back Christine was packed out over the winter with canvas and sails repairs that I had to say enough was enough the boat was like a Chinese sweat shop sails and canvas littler the place ,
She spend nearly every day below and all you could hear was zzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz zzzzzzz if you look down you see was a cabin full of sail moving on its own , she be there some where .
we come to an agreement that she only do work for people we know now and to get others fellow sailors out of trouble.
The last two winters there not been much time to help anyone out , we been busy with our own refit , now at last nearly finish. that just remind me another job to add on to the new list .
But thanks for you input Andrew , some good suggestions, not so sure about the teaching part.
Now back to my problem with the 4.5k budget , we had 2 giros A beer and a glass of wine last night so our funds have dropped by 11€ which mean I will need to fish to feed the cat , use the stall bread left on the table next to us last night for toasted for our breakfast , and Christine will have to use both anchors one at a time until we can get a clear space to sail out of the anchorage so we don't start the engine and use fuel , god know what we going to do for lunch .
AndrewB
Well-known member
Most of my stuff was based on personal experience, though not recent as I'm far too old now for this sort of effort. But it can be done. The bartending was good, specially with some nice tips. (I was young and pretty back then, doubt it would work now. This was when I was a liveaboard in England).
SWMBO played Peter Cafe Sport in Horta one year - but just like the Blues Bros, our bar bill seemed to come to more than her take. The teaching isn't personal experience, but I have a couple of snowbirding Canadian friends who teach English in Mexico during the winter and just about cover their costs. Like you by the sound of it, we half killed ourselves with sail repair - never again.
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Achosenman
Active member
TonyMS
Active member
- Joined
- 16 May 2001
- Messages
- 707
- Location
- Winter St Ives, Cambs; summer Ionian
A serious reply!
Was tidying my bookshelves this evening and came across the wonderfully inspiring "Voyaging on a Small Income" by Annie Hill.
Published in 1993, it describes how she and husband Pete went world voyaging on £1200 a year. Inflation since then would only double that. The key factors were that they built and maintained their own wooden junk-rigged, engineless Wylo, and lived mainly on beans. And never paid for moorings.
We've since met two Wylo sailors. One was a Canadian up the Guadiana. He'd sailed from the St Laurence with his two young children, while his wife worked as a nurse to keep them and pay for occasional visits. The other was crewed by a young couple who joined us in the anchorage in Barbados after a crossing from Mindelo that was only a day or two more than ours in a 46ft Prout. Both crews were living on pennies.
If you haven't read the book, do. It is a classic.
TonyMS
Was tidying my bookshelves this evening and came across the wonderfully inspiring "Voyaging on a Small Income" by Annie Hill.
Published in 1993, it describes how she and husband Pete went world voyaging on £1200 a year. Inflation since then would only double that. The key factors were that they built and maintained their own wooden junk-rigged, engineless Wylo, and lived mainly on beans. And never paid for moorings.
We've since met two Wylo sailors. One was a Canadian up the Guadiana. He'd sailed from the St Laurence with his two young children, while his wife worked as a nurse to keep them and pay for occasional visits. The other was crewed by a young couple who joined us in the anchorage in Barbados after a crossing from Mindelo that was only a day or two more than ours in a 46ft Prout. Both crews were living on pennies.
If you haven't read the book, do. It is a classic.
TonyMS
Kukri
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
I'm taking this thread absolutely seriously.
I have the Annie Hill book and its excellent.
I'd like to thank Vic and Andrew.
I'm taking this thread absolutely seriously.
I have the Annie Hill book and its excellent.
I'd like to thank Vic and Andrew.
Kukri
Well-known member
I am oddly reminded of a passage in Lord Runciman's "Collier Brigs and their Sailors":
Master to Mate (peering at a blue back chart by the dim light of the cabin lamp) "If that's the Shipwash light vessel, we're all right, but if that's a fly-blow, we're in trouble!"
Now, if you missed out one zero, I'm all right, but if you missed out two, I'm in trouble!
Tranona
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
I think the point with Annie Hill is that they spent a lot of time at sea and eat a vegetarian diet - mostly beans! The simple boat (a Benford Dory, not a Wylo) and keeping away from civilisation means there is not a lot to spend money on.
Bit different in the Med as the time spent in contact with the land based economy is potentially much greater and arguably an engineless boat rather impractical.
When folks have shared their annual budgets, land related costs (mooring, eating out, touristy things, flying home etc) dominate. minimalist budgets avoid these expensive contact points.
I think the point with Annie Hill is that they spent a lot of time at sea and eat a vegetarian diet - mostly beans! The simple boat (a Benford Dory, not a Wylo) and keeping away from civilisation means there is not a lot to spend money on.
Bit different in the Med as the time spent in contact with the land based economy is potentially much greater and arguably an engineless boat rather impractical.
When folks have shared their annual budgets, land related costs (mooring, eating out, touristy things, flying home etc) dominate. minimalist budgets avoid these expensive contact points.
Kukri
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
Thanks; you are right; the boat was a junk rigged Benford dory, not a Wylo II. Wylo IIs are steel gaff cutters (and pretty nice). I think Annie Hill later moved aboard a Wylo II with a different partner.
I have a writer friend who lives in Cambodia (not the "pedo" bit!) on almost nothing, but he never travels, he spends US$ 60 a month on rent and he only eats out sometimes.
Thanks; you are right; the boat was a junk rigged Benford dory, not a Wylo II. Wylo IIs are steel gaff cutters (and pretty nice). I think Annie Hill later moved aboard a Wylo II with a different partner.
I have a writer friend who lives in Cambodia (not the "pedo" bit!) on almost nothing, but he never travels, he spends US$ 60 a month on rent and he only eats out sometimes.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
I not read Annie hill maybe I should , seems quite a few have here .
I have to say I get carried away when I read thread on the costs on doing up old boats , living on board and the cost of cruising. ( I can just hear Tranona and a few others saying REALLY )
I guess In one way because we do have a lot of experience on the subject and in another I hate to think some novice dreamer with little money get carried away by what he read and wasted what ever he has on something that not going to happen on small sums of money
Off cause that's their choice , but would you try and stop someone jumping off the M25 bridge even if it's their choice .
Time and time again we read , I know a guy who sailing around the world on X .
Yes they may know the guy but do they know his circumstances, what money he got tucked away , you may have know him for years but is he really going to tell you what his financial situation is , he may be an OAP but he could had sold his £400000 pound house .and living off that .
We do know people who cruising on very little but only when you get into a deep conversation with them and they open up you get to know how they doing it,
These are people with very little money .
There not going out for meals every few day or once a week or even once a month unless they are invited on another boat.
There normally mostly single guys at times women .
They boat are small with the basic stuff and equipment some that no longer work because they haven't got the money to replace them .
They live on a diet of of potato, salad in the summer and in the winter any thing they can make soup or stew with and bread .
What they never seen to be short of is a can of beer or a drink of some kind , maybe they need this to make life more bearable ,
You be surprise how many don't even have insurances for there boat not even third party .
Some of these guys have started off there dream with a partner/wife of some kind , she well and Truly gone long ago.
There caught in a trap which they can't get out , there boat worth nothing , they having got enough money to go back to where every and even if they have they got no where to return too .
There are others who after a very short time realise with very little money this isn't going to work , dumps their boat and return back .
Then there the once that have a skill of some kind , they find a harbour which is still free or a cheap mooring , find a job and live on their boat while working , well that's not really cruising or going any where , that just living on a boat instead in a house and some do tend to make a go of it ,
I don't keep a record of what we spend we did at one time and I nearly fell over when I sew what we spending .
Now before some one gets the wrong idea and thing we out partying every night
We on our anchor for nine months each year
The only mooring we pay for is three month over the winter when we in a Marina these days,
Has six months is just too much we love to cruise.
We go out for a meal once every two weeks although lately we have been out quite a few times but it's been for a giros and a beer come to about 12€ for two , but you couldn't cook a meals for that .
We sail as much as we can , as long as we can do 2kts unless we on a very long trip the engine stays off .
Can't remember last time we hired a car although we do catch busses .
We went out yesterday and did a few days of food and cleaning product shopping including in that was a pack of six beer and two bottles of wine 72€ , my words where , what the hell did we buy for that .
Most of our socially is done on board , we do know a heck of a lot of people and no matter where we cruise we alway meeting up with old friends and making new friends , just the other day we socially on board with an Australian family who sadly after three years have run out of money and having to return back ,
They worked out by what others have told them they could last at less five years with what funds they had .
Any way we now have some where to stay if we like to visit Australia
Yes we spend a lot on the boat as I do like it well maintained and it is our home, plus one day we need to sell it and liveaboard boats can get very run down quickly if you don't look after them .
How much do we spend in a year? I don't know but it's a heck of a lot more then some say here you can cruise for .
To us cruise is seeing new places and exploring them , meet new people , making new friends and enjoying what little time we have in earth .
On the other hand , you could live like Annie hill by what I just read here and live like a hermit on 4.5k a year given inflation.
How long will that last for is anybody guess.
I not read Annie hill maybe I should , seems quite a few have here .
I have to say I get carried away when I read thread on the costs on doing up old boats , living on board and the cost of cruising. ( I can just hear Tranona and a few others saying REALLY )
I guess In one way because we do have a lot of experience on the subject and in another I hate to think some novice dreamer with little money get carried away by what he read and wasted what ever he has on something that not going to happen on small sums of money
Off cause that's their choice , but would you try and stop someone jumping off the M25 bridge even if it's their choice .
Time and time again we read , I know a guy who sailing around the world on X .
Yes they may know the guy but do they know his circumstances, what money he got tucked away , you may have know him for years but is he really going to tell you what his financial situation is , he may be an OAP but he could had sold his £400000 pound house .and living off that .
We do know people who cruising on very little but only when you get into a deep conversation with them and they open up you get to know how they doing it,
These are people with very little money .
There not going out for meals every few day or once a week or even once a month unless they are invited on another boat.
There normally mostly single guys at times women .
They boat are small with the basic stuff and equipment some that no longer work because they haven't got the money to replace them .
They live on a diet of of potato, salad in the summer and in the winter any thing they can make soup or stew with and bread .
What they never seen to be short of is a can of beer or a drink of some kind , maybe they need this to make life more bearable ,
You be surprise how many don't even have insurances for there boat not even third party .
Some of these guys have started off there dream with a partner/wife of some kind , she well and Truly gone long ago.
There caught in a trap which they can't get out , there boat worth nothing , they having got enough money to go back to where every and even if they have they got no where to return too .
There are others who after a very short time realise with very little money this isn't going to work , dumps their boat and return back .
Then there the once that have a skill of some kind , they find a harbour which is still free or a cheap mooring , find a job and live on their boat while working , well that's not really cruising or going any where , that just living on a boat instead in a house and some do tend to make a go of it ,
I don't keep a record of what we spend we did at one time and I nearly fell over when I sew what we spending .
Now before some one gets the wrong idea and thing we out partying every night
We on our anchor for nine months each year
The only mooring we pay for is three month over the winter when we in a Marina these days,
Has six months is just too much we love to cruise.
We go out for a meal once every two weeks although lately we have been out quite a few times but it's been for a giros and a beer come to about 12€ for two , but you couldn't cook a meals for that .
We sail as much as we can , as long as we can do 2kts unless we on a very long trip the engine stays off .
Can't remember last time we hired a car although we do catch busses .
We went out yesterday and did a few days of food and cleaning product shopping including in that was a pack of six beer and two bottles of wine 72€ , my words where , what the hell did we buy for that .
Most of our socially is done on board , we do know a heck of a lot of people and no matter where we cruise we alway meeting up with old friends and making new friends , just the other day we socially on board with an Australian family who sadly after three years have run out of money and having to return back ,
They worked out by what others have told them they could last at less five years with what funds they had .
Any way we now have some where to stay if we like to visit Australia
Yes we spend a lot on the boat as I do like it well maintained and it is our home, plus one day we need to sell it and liveaboard boats can get very run down quickly if you don't look after them .
How much do we spend in a year? I don't know but it's a heck of a lot more then some say here you can cruise for .
To us cruise is seeing new places and exploring them , meet new people , making new friends and enjoying what little time we have in earth .
On the other hand , you could live like Annie hill by what I just read here and live like a hermit on 4.5k a year given inflation.
How long will that last for is anybody guess.
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GHA
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
Not spent much time in the Med but the low budget cruisers seem to avoid it, maybe a combination of being a bit more adventurous and preferring off the beaten track along with cost. No need to hole up in a marina for winters in the tropics
Not spent much time in the Med but the low budget cruisers seem to avoid it, maybe a combination of being a bit more adventurous and preferring off the beaten track along with cost. No need to hole up in a marina for winters in the tropics
Kelpie
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
I've seen people on here post annual cruising budgets that exceed what I live on right now, in a house, with a car, mortgage, etc etc.
I do agree with the observation that the more time you spend 'away from it all' the less money you spend.
I've met (single) people cruising on a 4.5k budget, or thereabouts. If you are primarily feeding yourself and maintaining, by DIY, a small and simple boat, it is entirely possible. Just I think that the majority of people on this forum would consider this sort of lifestyle to have too many sacrifices.
I've seen people on here post annual cruising budgets that exceed what I live on right now, in a house, with a car, mortgage, etc etc.
I do agree with the observation that the more time you spend 'away from it all' the less money you spend.
I've met (single) people cruising on a 4.5k budget, or thereabouts. If you are primarily feeding yourself and maintaining, by DIY, a small and simple boat, it is entirely possible. Just I think that the majority of people on this forum would consider this sort of lifestyle to have too many sacrifices.
Tranona
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
That is very much the point. we (people in general) tend to adjust our style of living to the resources we have available and try to make the most out of what we have. As Vic suggested above many people go through cycles - sometimes having "plenty" and circumstances change so adjust (or fail to adjust) to any changes.
The sad cases of those who end up broke on their decaying boats are the obvious ones, but you find that scenario on land as well as on water. At the other end of the spectrum young people tend to be much more adventurous and willing to live at a basic level in return for the experience. Not sure whether this style of travel will survive now that young people incur such high debts early on from uni fees. Maybe a one year adventure will become more common than the 3-4 years living aboard that some have done in the past.
All generalisations of course as individuals and couples find their own way through life. A common theme of the downside, though seems to breakdown of relationships, often related to a difference in view of living on a boat. Financially for many particularly after long standing relationships can be devastating. When I look around my peers I see many who have failed relationships, some then with second families unable to be financially comfortable in later life so restricting their opportunities in what can be a long time post work. The other downer is of course health and the uncertainty that increases as you get older. In my case that hit just at the point of transition from full time work meaning a big change in direction. Probably in hindsight a good thing as it avoided the danger of the downward spiral outlined above. Fortunately 6 years later and the marvel that is modern medicine and another new scenario opened up which seems sustainable.
Bit of drift from the original question but perhaps illustrating another perspective of the same basic issue of how one makes ones way through life and that for some living on the margins is just as acceptable as at the other end of the spectrum.
That is very much the point. we (people in general) tend to adjust our style of living to the resources we have available and try to make the most out of what we have. As Vic suggested above many people go through cycles - sometimes having "plenty" and circumstances change so adjust (or fail to adjust) to any changes.
The sad cases of those who end up broke on their decaying boats are the obvious ones, but you find that scenario on land as well as on water. At the other end of the spectrum young people tend to be much more adventurous and willing to live at a basic level in return for the experience. Not sure whether this style of travel will survive now that young people incur such high debts early on from uni fees. Maybe a one year adventure will become more common than the 3-4 years living aboard that some have done in the past.
All generalisations of course as individuals and couples find their own way through life. A common theme of the downside, though seems to breakdown of relationships, often related to a difference in view of living on a boat. Financially for many particularly after long standing relationships can be devastating. When I look around my peers I see many who have failed relationships, some then with second families unable to be financially comfortable in later life so restricting their opportunities in what can be a long time post work. The other downer is of course health and the uncertainty that increases as you get older. In my case that hit just at the point of transition from full time work meaning a big change in direction. Probably in hindsight a good thing as it avoided the danger of the downward spiral outlined above. Fortunately 6 years later and the marvel that is modern medicine and another new scenario opened up which seems sustainable.
Bit of drift from the original question but perhaps illustrating another perspective of the same basic issue of how one makes ones way through life and that for some living on the margins is just as acceptable as at the other end of the spectrum.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
I came across this on a public sailing forum , I hoping I not breaking any rules by pasting it here , I remove where the boat is so not to give any private info away ...
It's from a liveAboard with an old boat , trying to live his dream on a OAP .
The financial burden of the early engine failure, propshaft coupling failure and a litany of electrical problems (not to mention persistent adverse weather conditions) have made selling my boat in England all the more urgent. It needs some work before being placed on the market, and I'm not optimistic about achieving an early sale. As the cost of wintering the boat in XXXXXXXX is much the same as it would be at home, it makes sense to do what I can to crawl out of a financial abyss. The Med has become ridiculously expensive, far beyond the means of someone living on the UK State Pension.
I came across this on a public sailing forum , I hoping I not breaking any rules by pasting it here , I remove where the boat is so not to give any private info away ...
It's from a liveAboard with an old boat , trying to live his dream on a OAP .
The financial burden of the early engine failure, propshaft coupling failure and a litany of electrical problems (not to mention persistent adverse weather conditions) have made selling my boat in England all the more urgent. It needs some work before being placed on the market, and I'm not optimistic about achieving an early sale. As the cost of wintering the boat in XXXXXXXX is much the same as it would be at home, it makes sense to do what I can to crawl out of a financial abyss. The Med has become ridiculously expensive, far beyond the means of someone living on the UK State Pension.
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RichardS
N/A
Re: A serious reply!
Is he referring to England when he says "persistent adverse weather conditions" because we've been home from Croatia for a few weeks now and the weather in Croatia was nowhere near as "Mediterranean" as the weather in the West Midlands. :ambivalence:
Richard
Is he referring to England when he says "persistent adverse weather conditions" because we've been home from Croatia for a few weeks now and the weather in Croatia was nowhere near as "Mediterranean" as the weather in the West Midlands. :ambivalence:
Richard
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
by where he plainning to leave his boat he in the western Med ,
it's so sad that a guy of senior age have had is dream smash ,
Once again doing it on small amount money seen to be his down fall money ,
Living on OAP no one can deny it's possible, thousand do it every day but keep an boat maintained especially an old one that a very different kind of fish .
by what else he wrote sound like he in a right pickle.
Can't help feeling sorry for the guy .
Maybe if anyone here interested in a Hilliard in the Med that In need of work PM me and I put you intouch .
by where he plainning to leave his boat he in the western Med ,
it's so sad that a guy of senior age have had is dream smash ,
Once again doing it on small amount money seen to be his down fall money ,
Living on OAP no one can deny it's possible, thousand do it every day but keep an boat maintained especially an old one that a very different kind of fish .
by what else he wrote sound like he in a right pickle.
Can't help feeling sorry for the guy .
Maybe if anyone here interested in a Hilliard in the Med that In need of work PM me and I put you intouch .
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nortada
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
No way we could survive as liveaboards on £4,500 per annum in the UK or abroad.
Divorce or murder - not sure which would come first!
No way we could survive as liveaboards on £4,500 per annum in the UK or abroad.
Divorce or murder - not sure which would come first!
DownWest
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
Tend to think that the days of Annie Hill's & Shrimpy exploits are well past. Mainly because the world has changed and yachtys are viewed as rich and able to afford the the contributions to the local economy.
This might be less applicable in the antipodes, where Annie is building a little liveaboard to continue her sailing.
There is a bit of hope for minimulists, If under 21ft, most countries don't get too fussy about insurance and other rules.
Tend to think that the days of Annie Hill's & Shrimpy exploits are well past. Mainly because the world has changed and yachtys are viewed as rich and able to afford the the contributions to the local economy.
This might be less applicable in the antipodes, where Annie is building a little liveaboard to continue her sailing.
There is a bit of hope for minimulists, If under 21ft, most countries don't get too fussy about insurance and other rules.
steve yates
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
I have a friend who earns about 8k pa, and owns her own home in the lakes with a (small) mortgage on it. She is a bit of an eco warrior and very frugal, but she has done it for a long time, and shows it is quite possible. So no doubt one could cruise on a small budget. It's whether you would want to or not!
I have a friend who earns about 8k pa, and owns her own home in the lakes with a (small) mortgage on it. She is a bit of an eco warrior and very frugal, but she has done it for a long time, and shows it is quite possible. So no doubt one could cruise on a small budget. It's whether you would want to or not!
DownWest
Well-known member
Re: A serious reply!
Steve, it looks great until things go wrong due to health or other mishaps. Then they fall back on the state.
Elsewere, that might be more problematical.
Steve, it looks great until things go wrong due to health or other mishaps. Then they fall back on the state.
Elsewere, that might be more problematical.
