Sailing allowed in lockdown

capnsensible

Well-known member
Joined
15 Mar 2007
Messages
43,455
Location
Atlantic
Visit site
Yes, IAM seems a pretty good analogy for where they'd be on the qualification/training front without the government franchise and perhaps we'd have a body that fought for all boaters' interests.
IT appears you are under informed. Do you read the articles on the RYA website? I know that some people simply form an irrational bias without ever looking into the services they provide and rely on heresay, to criticise. I'm sure you have carefully rationalised your arguments and regularly contact their head office in full understanding of why they were chosen to act on behalf of the government in the first place. Growing a successful business from that sits uncomfortably with some people. But your genuine concerns are important feedback for them. It's good of you to keep them on their toes, avoids complacency.

Well done you. ?
 

NotBirdseye

Well-known member
Joined
13 Apr 2019
Messages
3,860
Location
Wales
Visit site
IT appears you are under informed. Do you read the articles on the RYA website? I know that some people simply form an irrational bias without ever looking into the services they provide and rely on heresay, to criticise. I'm sure you have carefully rationalised your arguments and regularly contact their head office in full understanding of why they were chosen to act on behalf of the government in the first place. Growing a successful business from that sits uncomfortably with some people. But your genuine concerns are important feedback for them. It's good of you to keep them on their toes, avoids complacency.

Well done you. ?

*charity that's supposed to be about furthering the Sailing community. The RYA is not a private enterprise. It doesn't sit uncomfortably that they are distributing information, it's sits uncomfortably that they don't appear to be batting for the team that keeps them in jobs.
 

capnsensible

Well-known member
Joined
15 Mar 2007
Messages
43,455
Location
Atlantic
Visit site
*charity that's supposed to be about furthering the Sailing community. The RYA is not a private enterprise. It doesn't sit uncomfortably that they are distributing information, it's sits uncomfortably that they don't appear to be batting for the team that keeps them in jobs.
How do you know that? That's all I ask of the people that complain. Have you contacted those within the organisation that you think aren't doing anything? A great deal is revealed on releases on the website that people don't bother to read. Pretty much the same for the RYA magazine.
 

Graham_Wright

Well-known member
Joined
30 Dec 2002
Messages
7,737
Location
Gloucestershire
www.mastaclimba.com
I think I am now well prepared to answer any questions from anyone on my proposed visit to the boat next week. If, for instance, plod stops me on the Chepstow or Monmouth bridge, I shall ask him for a directive. Then I will counter that with the plethora of contradictory information exemplified here.

Once in Wales, it seems I can do what I like.

I shall politely explain to anyone my risk to myself and my risk to anybody else based on my common sense and understanding of the rules of transmission. Simply put, if I don't meet anyone, there will be no transmission.
 

Blue Sunray

Well-known member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
2,424
Visit site
*charity that's supposed to be about furthering the Sailing community. The RYA is not a private enterprise. It doesn't sit uncomfortably that they are distributing information, it's sits uncomfortably that they don't appear to be batting for the team that keeps them in jobs.

Yes their attitude is very much aligned with their being a governing body rather than there to represent the participants, tinged with their over arching commercial interest in maintaining their ponzi scheme.

IMHO it would be much healthier if they demerged or sold off the training/commercial function in much the same way as the RAC did with their commercial operation, albeit there isn't an exact parallel as the RAC didn't licence driving instructors nor issue driving licences (that would have been daft ;) )
 

NotBirdseye

Well-known member
Joined
13 Apr 2019
Messages
3,860
Location
Wales
Visit site
How do you know that? That's all I ask of the people that complain. Have you contacted those within the organisation that you think aren't doing anything? A great deal is revealed on releases on the website that people don't bother to read. Pretty much the same for the RYA magazine.

Didn't say I 'knew' anything. See the keyword 'appear' and appearances are everything. Back room deals and private meetings with ministers need to be firmed up with public minuted meetings and it should be a matter of campaigning... and quite frankly they should be doing a lot more to get people into sailing and watersports than they have been doing. Their Sailability efforts particularly recently are minimal at best. Definitely need to take a more active approach.

Yes their attitude is very much aligned with their being a governing body rather than there to represent the participants, tinged with their over arching commercial interest in maintaining their ponzi scheme.

IMHO it would be much healthier if they demerged or sold off the training/commercial function in much the same way as the RAC did with their commercial operation, albeit there isn't an exact parallel as the RAC didn't licence driving instructors nor issue driving licences (that would have been daft ;) )

I just have one question... a ponzi scheme requires that money is distributed to earlier investors from later investors. I'm not sure how that quite applies here as aside from a small amount to sailability, I believe they just pay themselves.
 

Blue Sunray

Well-known member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
2,424
Visit site
I just have one question... a ponzi scheme requires that money is distributed to earlier investors from later investors. I'm not sure how that quite applies here as aside from a small amount to sailability, I believe they just pay themselves.

On reflection, it's a Pyramid Selling rather than Ponzi scheme.
 

Capt Popeye

Well-known member
Joined
30 Sep 2011
Messages
18,799
Location
Dawlish South Devon
Visit site
Try as I may, even looked up what it does and stands for; DEFRA that is, cannot see for the life of me why DEFRA is involved, consulted, advice sought from, in any activity whatever in Boating

So why refer to DERFA at all unless one is completely lost in one's mind or understanding; their connection with Watersports and activities is to me a puzzle; anybody venture a reason to approach DEFRA about the Lock Down restrictions
 

Capt Popeye

Well-known member
Joined
30 Sep 2011
Messages
18,799
Location
Dawlish South Devon
Visit site
On reflection, it's a Pyramid Selling rather than Ponzi scheme.
Yep gota get more Certificates out there, plus get a reason to get more Certificates about less and less plus plus get more certificates to Teach their courses to those that have not got certificates so they can get a Certificate to Teach their Courses to more and more peoples ?

Rather like certain games to me, Monopoly springs to mind
 

capnsensible

Well-known member
Joined
15 Mar 2007
Messages
43,455
Location
Atlantic
Visit site
Yep gota get more Certificates out there, plus get a reason to get more Certificates about less and less plus plus get more certificates to Teach their courses to those that have not got certificates so they can get a Certificate to Teach their Courses to more and more peoples ?

Rather like certain games to me, Monopoly springs to mind
Yes of course and when you go sailing, all you are doing is sat on your boat twiddling a few bits of string. Thanks for clearing that up. ??
 

NotBirdseye

Well-known member
Joined
13 Apr 2019
Messages
3,860
Location
Wales
Visit site
Yes of course and when you go sailing, all you are doing is sat on your boat twiddling a few bits of string. Thanks for clearing that up. ??

No one is saying that the Day Skipper doesn't have its merits....however...

'Start Yachting'
'Cruising Level 1 - Start Sailing'
'Competent Crew Practical'
Cruising level 2?

And that's just for sail cruising.

You've then got your... 'Essential Navigation', Basic Sea Survival, offshore personal survival course...

Then! If you're an instructor or want to be one, you have whole host of more rubbish. To put a neat bow on it, the only course that anyone really recognizes is the Day Skipper and Yachtmaster.
 

capnsensible

Well-known member
Joined
15 Mar 2007
Messages
43,455
Location
Atlantic
Visit site
No one is saying that the Day Skipper doesn't have its merits....however...

'Start Yachting'
'Cruising Level 1 - Start Sailing'
'Competent Crew Practical'
Cruising level 2?

And that's just for sail cruising.

You've then got your... 'Essential Navigation', Basic Sea Survival, offshore personal survival course...

Then! If you're an instructor or want to be one, you have whole host of more rubbish. To put a neat bow on it, the only course that anyone really recognizes is the Day Skipper and Yachtmaster.
Define 'rubbish' in the context of gaining a commercially endorsed qualification in order to take people safely to sea on a yacht and show them how it works.

I can't quite see the reason you have some kinda grudge about this.
 

Sandy

Well-known member
Joined
31 Aug 2011
Messages
20,941
Location
On the Celtic Fringe
duckduckgo.com
No one is saying that the Day Skipper doesn't have its merits....however...

'Start Yachting'
'Cruising Level 1 - Start Sailing'
'Competent Crew Practical'
Cruising level 2?

And that's just for sail cruising.

You've then got your... 'Essential Navigation', Basic Sea Survival, offshore personal survival course...

Then! If you're an instructor or want to be one, you have whole host of more rubbish. To put a neat bow on it, the only course that anyone really recognizes is the Day Skipper and Yachtmaster.
Or you could just rock up and do your Yachtmaster Offshore then set off to do your Ocean passage and submit yourself to that interrogation.
 

capnsensible

Well-known member
Joined
15 Mar 2007
Messages
43,455
Location
Atlantic
Visit site
Or you could just rock up and do your Yachtmaster Offshore then set off to do your Ocean passage and submit yourself to that interrogation.
Unless you need to meet the required standards to be paid for your knowledge, that's the great strength of the cruising scheme. It's entirely voluntary, extremely popular and even those that get paid from having had the benefit of being properly trained to instruct can moan about it being a Ponzi scheme.........?
 

NotBirdseye

Well-known member
Joined
13 Apr 2019
Messages
3,860
Location
Wales
Visit site
Define 'rubbish' in the context of gaining a commercially endorsed qualification in order to take people safely to sea on a yacht and show them how it works.

I can't quite see the reason you have some kinda grudge about this.

No one said that the Yachtmaster or the Dayskipper are rubbish. But serious the majority of other courses are garbage designed to separate you from your money. As was said earlier, it's not that we don't think the RYA are useful it's that it has become a money making exercise full of mickymouse activities that aren't recognized, aren't 'commercially endorsed'.

Instead of coming up with these schemes, they should actually be doing more to make watersports more accessible. That means encouraging a culture change, running not-for-profit marinas/boatyards and subsidizing where possible, particularly for those coming from disadvantaged backgrounds.

While I can't get behind the idea it is a ponzi scheme, I can see the logic behind calling it a pyramid scheme.

No one has a 'grudge', simply telling it how it appears and if the RYA want new members, they're going to have to start working harder. At the moment, the RYA appears like it's a money making exercise to keep its executives driving flash cars and access to fancy restaurants, rather than doing anything to bring in and sustain fresh blood. It doesn't appear to be doing anything to actually bat for sailors except act as a mouth piece for whatever the government says. I mea the biggest thing I've seen them discussing is about Red diesel, that's about it... and what exactly did they achieve? Nothing. It's not even as though they are funding initiatives to make the switch from diesel to electric, no Electric Engine maintenance course... little support for no-engine techniques (gotta pester your instructor half the time). And yes I expect to be able to get something for my membership... (I do like the scam they have with Bishop Marine... 99% will be able to get cheaper insurance elsewhere even with the RYA discount).
 

capnsensible

Well-known member
Joined
15 Mar 2007
Messages
43,455
Location
Atlantic
Visit site
You could try spending some time here to address your concerns.

Home

You could even ask what flash cars they drive and what fancy restaurants they dine in! ?
 
Top