Sailing abroad - Documents?

[Graham376]

Documents to prove VAT status also

If it's a UK boat which was in UK on B day, it has already lost it's VAT status in EU so carrying proof of VAT status is pointless.

 

[DangerousPirate]

If it's a UK boat which was in UK on B day, it has already lost it's VAT status in EU so carrying proof of VAT status is pointless.

Doesn't this only count for boats of a certain age? Mine is 1976, so fairly old lady. But not sure what the "clearance" is, didn't find anything on my quick google search.

 

[Mistroma]

Your Part 1 certificate is now digital.

Not even laminated

Do they just send a PDF these days. It used to be a very nice "Blue book" before the system was re-vamped and required regular renewal in exchange for cash. I seem to remember it morphed into an A4 sheet that was later supplied pre-laminated and then returned to an ordinary A4 sheet again.

I have the original plus a copy and usually present the copy. It is quite a good copy as I photo-shopped out the coloured background, leaving the coloured "watermark" when printed on white paper. I have exactly the right colour of paper and that makes it virtually identical to the original with one minor issue. The laser printer won't print full A4 borderless and I had to scale it slightly before trimming it. I now have a 98% scale copy of a Part I.

Complete waste of time of course but I was curious to see if I could make a pretty convincing copy.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Reg and insurance for the boat. Passport and if required visa for crew. That's what you need.

Of course if you have a radio UK requires License for boat and for crew to use it except in emergency. Never been asked. As for Skipper qualifications, if its a UK boat then there is no requirement regardless of where you are sailing.

I keep everything in a waterproof Musto binder along with ICC, Dayskipper and Yachtmaster certs and my Reg is laminated but I have non laminated copies too. I also have Bill of sale and notarised statements for where the boat was on B day and the previous Vat day along with a list of safety equipment and a little picture of where it all is stowed. It really doesn't take much effort and will leave whoever decides to inspect you in no doubt.

Many will think it's overkill but in my professional life I have been "ramp checked" many many times and the way to get through it quickly is to shove everything they might want to see under their nose and smile.

 

[vyv_cox]

If it's a UK boat which was in UK on B day, it has already lost it's VAT status in EU so carrying proof of VAT status is pointless.

Sorry, that is not the case. I have letters from the EU Commission in Brussels that state that UK VAT-paid boats before Brexit are deemed VAT paid in EU. Here is an extract from one of the letters, from Ms Cãtãlina NISTOR

As stated in our letter, Article 153(1) of the Union customs code establishes the presumption that all goods located in the customs territory of the Union are deemed to be Union goods, unless it is established that they are not Union goods. If those goods leave the Union territory and return within 3 years they benefit from relief from import duty as returned goods under Article 203 of the Union Customs Code, which entails that they become again Union goods. Provided that the conditions established in Article 203 UCC are met, and that the boat is re-imported by the same person who exported it, then the boat can also benefit from VAT exemption.

If the goods were located within the customs territory of the Union on 31/12/2020 at midnight and stayed in this territory thereafter, provided again that the status of Union goods can be proven, exemption from customs duties and VAT applies as long as the conditions mentioned above are met.
Whether the flag on the boat belongs to a EU Member State or not is irrelevant on the application of the abovementioned provisions.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Oh, hm, I will need to research this vat stuff. I haven't paid anything, I just bought the boat second hand.

You will need to have a paper trail leading back to a point where the boat was bought from a dealer/manufacturer who would have charged VAT.

 

[BobnLesley]

We sailed most of Europe, the Americas and onward as far as New Zealand over almost twenty years: needed/used passports, registration document (we invariably used a professionally made laminated copy of the Part-1 certificate) often boat insurance and occasionally a pre-arranged visa/arrival notice. Our personal/health insurance was required in just a couple of places, but we never once needed to show VAT VHF/SSR or sail training/qualification evidence anywhere.

 

[doug748]

Oh jeez. This bureaucracy is really annoying. Can't even have copies or laminated paper? I mean on a boat, where things are prone to get wet I am supposed to keep paper documents? And then I propably get it back with coffee circles on it or something smh. Takes the fun out of my sails, that's for sure!

Okay. So I definitely need the boat registration papers, VHF Licence, Insurance, Passports and SSR.

Potentially Boat Documents as in length, tonnage etc.

And I think I need to go through the boat items (flares, extinguishers etc) and make sure they're up to date and up to EU standards. Oof.

Indeed, It makes sense to take what could conceivably be asked for rather than some sort of bare minimum.

I sniff a lot of nonsense about VAT in this thread, with luck Tranona will be along to give chapter and verse soon, basically it's nowt to worry about.

.

 

[BobnLesley]

You will need ought to have a paper trail leading back to a point where the boat was bought from a dealer/manufacturer who would have charged VAT.

Which can be achieved by producing a suitably stained and tatty photocopy of the boat's original purchase invoice; I'm advised by someone that I trust implicitly that such a thing's not difficult to create on a laptop.

 

[Graham376]

Sorry, that is not the case. I have letters from the EU Commission in Brussels that state that UK VAT-paid boats before Brexit are deemed VAT paid in EU. Here is an extract from one of the letters, from Ms Cãtãlina NISTOR

The correspondence I had with EU and information published was that boats in UK waters on 31/12 kept their UK status but lost EU. Boats in EU waters on that date kept EU status but lost UK status. In both cases the same owners who exported them can claim RGR when returning.

If someone has a UK boat which has never been resident in EU, it has lost it's status there, as I said.

 

[capnsensible]

We sailed most of Europe, the Americas and onward as far as New Zealand over almost twenty years: needed/used passports, registration document (we invariably used a professionally made laminated copy of the Part-1 certificate) often boat insurance and occasionally a pre-arranged visa/arrival notice. Our personal/health insurance was required in just a couple of places, but we never once needed to show VAT VHF/SSR or sail training/qualification evidence anywhere.

That too has been my experiences.keep it simple.

The only place I've been asked for details of boat equipment and stuff was clearing in to Bermuda. Most of that is done via the obligatory vhf callas you enter territorial waters.

Only place I was asked for a skipper qualification was some years ago in Croatia.

As you say, registration document, passports and occasionally insurance is all. Interesting standing in the clear in/ out crew watching flustered skipper wading through a bag of paper looking for the easybits.

 

[Tradewinds]

Do they just send a PDF these days. It used to be a very nice "Blue book" before the system was re-vamped and required regular renewal in exchange for cash. I seem to remember it morphed into an A4 sheet that was later supplied pre-laminated and then returned to an ordinary A4 sheet again.

I have the original plus a copy and usually present the copy. It is quite a good copy as I photo-shopped out the coloured background, leaving the coloured "watermark" when printed on white paper. I have exactly the right colour of paper and that makes it virtually identical to the original with one minor issue. The laser printer won't print full A4 borderless and I had to scale it slightly before trimming it. I now have a 98% scale copy of a Part I.

Complete waste of time of course but I was curious to see if I could make a pretty convincing copy.

Essentially you can download the 'digital certificate' as a PDF - whether your print out will be acceptable to some pumped-up official in some far-flung outpost remains to be seen. " I say, old chap do you have wifi?"

 

[Tranona]

Indeed, It makes sense to take what could conceivably be asked for rather than some sort of bare minimum.

I sniff a lot of nonsense about VAT in this thread, with luck Tranona will be along to give chapter and verse soon, basically it's nowt to worry about.

.

Indeed. First there was no VAT in 1970. Second, when we were in the EU the boat would be "deemed VAT paid" on account of its age (pre 1985) under the terms of the EI Accession in 1992 and could freely circulate throughout the EU. The withdrawal agreement changed that and boats in the UK on B day lost the right of free circulation. The OPs boat is in this situation but the only constraint it introduces is that the boat is limited in the time it can spend in the EU (18 months) and cannot be sold in the EU without being "imported".

So the OP has nothing to worry about on this front. Nobody is going to ask about VAT on an old boat.

 

[DangerousPirate]

We sailed most of Europe, the Americas and onward as far as New Zealand over almost twenty years: needed/used passports, registration document (we invariably used a professionally made laminated copy of the Part-1 certificate) often boat insurance and occasionally a pre-arranged visa/arrival notice. Our personal/health insurance was required in just a couple of places, but we never once needed to show VAT VHF/SSR or sail training/qualification evidence anywhere.

No one asked for icc? I am surprised.

 

[DangerousPirate]

Indeed, It makes sense to take what could conceivably be asked for rather than some sort of bare minimum.

I sniff a lot of nonsense about VAT in this thread, with luck Tranona will be along to give chapter and verse soon, basically it's nowt to worry about.

.

Well, when I said "necessary" and "good to have" I didn't expect the topic to so controversial about some of the points.

 

[Ningaloo]

I think the misunderstandings that arise regarding VAT are a result of Brexit and in general only apply to UK and EU residents and then only when in UK or EU. Residents of other countries will not be liable for VAT in UK or EU unless they keep the boat there for 18 months, however evidence of this will need its own documentation.
Those talking about not having been asked for VAT in the Carribbean, AU/NZ are correct but may not know of the recent upheavals following Brexit. I was once asked for original bill of sale and VAT invoice in Ireland, pre Brexit (2018)

 

[Tranona]

No one asked for icc? I am surprised.

While the ICC is a "ticket" sponsored by the UN it came about primarily as a requirement for pleasure boats using the commercial European inland waterways. Not many states have actually signed up to its use, and most that have are in Europe. However over the years many states, particularly around the Med which have compulsory licencing for their own citizens have accepted for visitors, mainly those chartering boats locally. It is "easy" to get in the UK so makes sense to have it if you are cruising abroad, particularly in the Med.

 

[syvictoria]

We had to produce our VHF licence last year in NL, IIRC.

 

[Daydream believer]

Original documents are preferable, hence should be stored in something waterproof.

All mine are laminated. That being said I did hear about one customs official who insisted that the owner removed the documents from the laminations. generally I have found the customs officials have been more than happy to be handed a neat sheaf of laminated documents.--- Before they start to search every inch of my b..y boat
I am an expert magnet when it comes to being visited by customs & police officials, so I should know

 

[Tradewinds]

No one asked for icc? I am surprised.

That's how it was - from the horse's mouth.
It was exactly the same for us. Never had a request for formal qualifications (or proof of insurance) in the 6 years we were away. We carried the Part1 blue book which was always treated with respect. Some cruisers weren't insured. When your excess ( deductible) is £5k you tended to sail as if you were uninsured!!