G
Guest
Guest
I think attention should also payed to rule 7.
sail, give way to power
- Thread starter rich
- Start date
ChrisJ
New member
The windsurfer is the "stand-on boat". That means he must not alter course in order to prevent the motor boat from keeping clear.
I interpret that to mean that if the windsurfer DOES alter course in such a way to increase the risk of a collision, then he is taking on the onus himself for keeping clear.
The motor vessel is required to give way - typically by a "small" alteration in course or speed. The earlier this "small" alteration can be done, the smaller it needs to be. If you wait untilt eh windsurfer is 20 yards away or less, then you need a large alteration.
At that point, another regulation comes into play - limited room to manouevre. Here the motor vessel can not change course or speed quick enough to avoid a collision.
So:
a) windsurfer keeps on a straight course.
b) motor vessel alters course/speed to avoid while windsurfer is more than 100 yds away.
c) windsurfer alters course to run into motor boat (sorry - I meant to say alters course based on the wind and waves).
d) motor vessel is now in the "restricted manouvering" space.
Cheers, Chris
I interpret that to mean that if the windsurfer DOES alter course in such a way to increase the risk of a collision, then he is taking on the onus himself for keeping clear.
The motor vessel is required to give way - typically by a "small" alteration in course or speed. The earlier this "small" alteration can be done, the smaller it needs to be. If you wait untilt eh windsurfer is 20 yards away or less, then you need a large alteration.
At that point, another regulation comes into play - limited room to manouevre. Here the motor vessel can not change course or speed quick enough to avoid a collision.
So:
a) windsurfer keeps on a straight course.
b) motor vessel alters course/speed to avoid while windsurfer is more than 100 yds away.
c) windsurfer alters course to run into motor boat (sorry - I meant to say alters course based on the wind and waves).
d) motor vessel is now in the "restricted manouvering" space.
Cheers, Chris
tony_brighton
New member
Cant recall the exact definition but doesn't the stand-on vessel have to maintain a consistent course and speed? In my experience a windsurfer is good for about 5 yards as stand on vessel.
Maybe the answer is run them over and claim they didn't stand on.
Maybe the answer is run them over and claim they didn't stand on.
brianrunyard
New member
I've had Sailboards deliberately crossing and recrossing my bows as a game to keep making me give way. One day I'll say sod it.
G
Guest
Guest
Probably the fact that he shouted "sail" gives away his arrogance - he EXPECTED you to give way!
BTW I've done windsurfing, I've done sailing and I've done motorboating. If you endanger yourself by ignoring the risk of collision then you're an idiot, no matter which vessel you're in. I just give way to everything and get on with enjoying my pastime. Sometimes I bite my lip and somtimes I've been sworn at on the water, but I have always got back (so far!)
Cheers,
Rich.
BTW I'm doing my ICC tomorrow, so if I get it I will REALLY patronise everyone!
BTW I've done windsurfing, I've done sailing and I've done motorboating. If you endanger yourself by ignoring the risk of collision then you're an idiot, no matter which vessel you're in. I just give way to everything and get on with enjoying my pastime. Sometimes I bite my lip and somtimes I've been sworn at on the water, but I have always got back (so far!)
Cheers,
Rich.
BTW I'm doing my ICC tomorrow, so if I get it I will REALLY patronise everyone!
vyv_cox
Well-known member
My earlier reply was made somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but I was unable to explain further due to my absence last week.
Two years ago we were very nearly run down by a small coaster off the Maas entrance. We were sailing, he crossed us from our starboard side and made no effort whatsoever to avoid us. In the ensuing VHF conversation we were told very forcibly that we could forget any ideas of power giving way to sail, despite what Colregs may say. His view was that he was in the right, as if we were both under power.
Since then we have lost count of the number of times that we have not been given way to by power vessels, ranging from large speed boats to other coasters (no excuses about restricted manouvrability, etc) However, it does seem that most powered vessels' skippers also drive cars, and, in Europe at least, the priority rules are similar. So now I expect any power vessel approaching me from my starboard side to ignore me, and mostly this proves to be true.
Two years ago we were very nearly run down by a small coaster off the Maas entrance. We were sailing, he crossed us from our starboard side and made no effort whatsoever to avoid us. In the ensuing VHF conversation we were told very forcibly that we could forget any ideas of power giving way to sail, despite what Colregs may say. His view was that he was in the right, as if we were both under power.
Since then we have lost count of the number of times that we have not been given way to by power vessels, ranging from large speed boats to other coasters (no excuses about restricted manouvrability, etc) However, it does seem that most powered vessels' skippers also drive cars, and, in Europe at least, the priority rules are similar. So now I expect any power vessel approaching me from my starboard side to ignore me, and mostly this proves to be true.
Sgeir
Well-known member
Are sailboards \"ships\"?
ColRegs - after all the legal fuss about about whether a jetski is a ship or a vessel or whatever, would the same arguments apply to windsurfers?
ColRegs - after all the legal fuss about about whether a jetski is a ship or a vessel or whatever, would the same arguments apply to windsurfers?
BrendanS
Well-known member
Re: Are sailboards \"ships\"?
why is everyone suddenly resurrecting threads from years ago?
why is everyone suddenly resurrecting threads from years ago?
Topcat47
Well-known member
Re: Are sailboards \"ships\"?
Perhaps because PWR's not being ships is topical?
Perhaps because PWR's not being ships is topical?
Evadne
Active member
Re: Are sailboards \"ships\"?
I'm pleased someone else asked that, I thought I was going mad. Has Sgeir discovered the YBW equivalent of the lost mines of Solomon? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm pleased someone else asked that, I thought I was going mad. Has Sgeir discovered the YBW equivalent of the lost mines of Solomon? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Lakesailor
New member
Re: Are sailboards \"ships\"?
Perhaps Sgeir has entered a parrallel, but 5 year old universe and doesn't know it.
Somewhat like that "Life on Mars" series.
Perhaps Sgeir has entered a parrallel, but 5 year old universe and doesn't know it.
Somewhat like that "Life on Mars" series.
pvb
Well-known member
Re: Are sailboards \"ships\"?
More like "Life on Mars Bar".
Do swans fit in to deep fat fryers?
More like "Life on Mars Bar".
Do swans fit in to deep fat fryers?
Tisme
New member
[ QUOTE ]
The windsurfer is the "stand-on boat". That means he must not alter course in order to prevent the motor boat from keeping clear.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not as clear cut as that.
I frequently find myself being buzzed by windsurfers as I tootle up the fairway on the way back to my mooring. I always stand on. They shouldn't be crossing the fairway like that (Rule 9).
If one of them smashes into me I will expect his insurance or his next of kin to pay up! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
The windsurfer is the "stand-on boat". That means he must not alter course in order to prevent the motor boat from keeping clear.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not as clear cut as that.
I frequently find myself being buzzed by windsurfers as I tootle up the fairway on the way back to my mooring. I always stand on. They shouldn't be crossing the fairway like that (Rule 9).
If one of them smashes into me I will expect his insurance or his next of kin to pay up! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
MaxJones
New member
Just a thought. As a sailboard is not a 'vessel capable of making passages at sea' (latest Court ruling re PWC's) is it even covered by the ColRegs in any way as it is not a 'sailing vessel' just a bit of wood with a rag on top. Like I said, just a thought!
pheran
New member
Re: Are sailboards \"ships\"?
Because thats the nature of forums such as these. Subjects do adopt a cyclic nature and many who have been following this debate were probably not around 'many years ago' Anyway, if people here are happy to discuss, what the hell has it got to do with you? Nobody made you Milk Monitor so less sanctimony please.
Because thats the nature of forums such as these. Subjects do adopt a cyclic nature and many who have been following this debate were probably not around 'many years ago' Anyway, if people here are happy to discuss, what the hell has it got to do with you? Nobody made you Milk Monitor so less sanctimony please.
Danny
New member
Re: Are sailboards \"ships\"?
[ QUOTE ]
...a cyclic nature
[/ QUOTE ]Is that the same as going round in circles? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
...a cyclic nature
[/ QUOTE ]Is that the same as going round in circles? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Bergman
New member
Re: Are sailboards \"ships\"?
Thats exactly what I was wondering
I am reminded about the old story of telling a joke in a trapist monastery -
No 51 - and everyone laughs.
Could save a lot of typing time
Thats exactly what I was wondering
I am reminded about the old story of telling a joke in a trapist monastery -
No 51 - and everyone laughs.
Could save a lot of typing time
A
Anonymous
Guest
[ QUOTE ]
....Two years ago we were very nearly run down by a small coaster off the Maas entrance. We were sailing, he crossed us from our starboard side and made no effort whatsoever to avoid us. In the ensuing VHF conversation we were told very forcibly that we could forget any ideas of power giving way to sail, despite what Colregs may say. His view was that he was in the right, as if we were both under power...
[/ QUOTE ]I don't know about that area but might it have local rules? For example, Algeciras Bay (Gibraltar Bay) yachts must give way to commercial vessels, as I found out when under sail, approaching Gib, a high speed ferry crossed from by port. Naturally, I gave way in good time to show my intentions but was a bit peeved until I looked at the pilot more closely and saw that local regs require the yacht to give way.
Yachts beware, local regs might require you to give way to commercial vessels and you might not know that fact. Now I alway assume this might be the case and act accordingly.
....Two years ago we were very nearly run down by a small coaster off the Maas entrance. We were sailing, he crossed us from our starboard side and made no effort whatsoever to avoid us. In the ensuing VHF conversation we were told very forcibly that we could forget any ideas of power giving way to sail, despite what Colregs may say. His view was that he was in the right, as if we were both under power...
[/ QUOTE ]I don't know about that area but might it have local rules? For example, Algeciras Bay (Gibraltar Bay) yachts must give way to commercial vessels, as I found out when under sail, approaching Gib, a high speed ferry crossed from by port. Naturally, I gave way in good time to show my intentions but was a bit peeved until I looked at the pilot more closely and saw that local regs require the yacht to give way.
Yachts beware, local regs might require you to give way to commercial vessels and you might not know that fact. Now I alway assume this might be the case and act accordingly.
Tisme
New member
[ QUOTE ]
Now I alway assume this might be the case and act accordingly.
[/ QUOTE ]
A sensible understanding of the unwritten Col Reg; "Right gives way to Might"
Now I alway assume this might be the case and act accordingly.
[/ QUOTE ]
A sensible understanding of the unwritten Col Reg; "Right gives way to Might"
Topcat47
Well-known member
Try telling that to the guy who crossed the Bristol Channel last week.
