can someone please tell me how,a 13ton,wooden motor boat at max;7knots gives way to a25knot windsurfer. the other day 2of them came out from the shore,1 the sensible one went astern of me, the other one went in front, yelling SAIL>>>>>>>>
sail, give way to power
- Thread starter rich
- Start date
I fully agree.
I'm afraid I view windsurfers in much the same light as jetski's. They are much more manoeuverable and quite often faster. If they wish to play chicken in front of me, I think they are utterly irresponsible.
No, I just keep on going.
I'm afraid I view windsurfers in much the same light as jetski's. They are much more manoeuverable and quite often faster. If they wish to play chicken in front of me, I think they are utterly irresponsible.
No, I just keep on going.
G
Guest
Guest
The Idiot Rule
In this case I use the idiot rule. The other person is an idiot and should be put out of his misery or learn some common sense. Some consideration has to be given to manouverability and all parties must make every effort to avoid a collision. I would take immediate evasive action oooops, the little dweeb, how dare he. Might is Right! Run him over.
In this case I use the idiot rule. The other person is an idiot and should be put out of his misery or learn some common sense. Some consideration has to be given to manouverability and all parties must make every effort to avoid a collision. I would take immediate evasive action oooops, the little dweeb, how dare he. Might is Right! Run him over.
G
Guest
Guest
I think that with all due consideration of the factors.....the nimrod on the sailboard probably deserves to be severly
browbeaten or at least flogged at noon in the town square. He having the more manuverable vessel(?) especially in a
channel....and having literally the choice of which way to go....not much draft to consider...was a fool to cut in front of the
larger vessel....much like the boneheads who "operate"(?~?) PWC's....and who run in front of a powerboat on plane,
never think much about what would happen if they stalled, fell over, or had any other problem. Even a large or heavy
sailboat or trawler can't stop on a dime, much less give you change...
If its any consolation....we have the same pack of idiots here in the states....and one heckuva lot of them down
here in Florida....
browbeaten or at least flogged at noon in the town square. He having the more manuverable vessel(?) especially in a
channel....and having literally the choice of which way to go....not much draft to consider...was a fool to cut in front of the
larger vessel....much like the boneheads who "operate"(?~?) PWC's....and who run in front of a powerboat on plane,
never think much about what would happen if they stalled, fell over, or had any other problem. Even a large or heavy
sailboat or trawler can't stop on a dime, much less give you change...
If its any consolation....we have the same pack of idiots here in the states....and one heckuva lot of them down
here in Florida....
G
Guest
Guest
It's everyones responsibility to behave in a responsible manner - which sometimes means not asserting your right of way.
We have lots of windsurfers here in Denmark, and they're never any trouble as they stay in the shallow water or surf zone, and most of them belong to clubs that do a good job of educating newbies. Jetskis are another matter - these guys act af if they're either braindead or plain obnoxious.
Maybe the EU should demand a licence for Jetskis?
Lost in Denmark - a yachtsmans paradise!
We have lots of windsurfers here in Denmark, and they're never any trouble as they stay in the shallow water or surf zone, and most of them belong to clubs that do a good job of educating newbies. Jetskis are another matter - these guys act af if they're either braindead or plain obnoxious.
Maybe the EU should demand a licence for Jetskis?
Lost in Denmark - a yachtsmans paradise!
steveallan
Member
Perhaps the real answer is to stop treating sailing vessel's differently to motor vessel's
davel
Active member
The answer is to slow down from your seven knot speed or alter course or both!
It's clear from the info you've given that according to the ColRegs he is the stand on vessel. It might be irritating to you but it doesn't change the situation.
It's clear from the info you've given that according to the ColRegs he is the stand on vessel. It might be irritating to you but it doesn't change the situation.
G
Guest
Guest
Erm, doesn't him being the stand on vessel rather depend on which side he was coming from?
davel
Active member
Not when it's a seven knot motor boat (power vessel) vs a windsurfer (sailing vessel).
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Unfortunately not true. If sailboard is approaching from starboard he is the stand-on vessel and the motor boat should give way. The other way round the situation is reversed and the sailboard should give way.
G
Guest
Guest
vyv, surely you are not referring to rule 15? as this is for two power vessels.
I would read it as Rule 18(a)(iv)?
I would read it as Rule 18(a)(iv)?
davel
Active member
Vyv, I'm gob smacked! If you're correct, you've just turned my world upside down! I admit that my knowledge of the Regs is far from perfect but I didn't think I was that far out. Could you point me in the direction of the Rule that supports your interpretation please? (Genuine request).
Have we stumbled on the cause of half the animosity between sail and power.
Like Dave my understanding is that the sailing vessel would have right of way whatever side he came from.
Not that I have much sympathy with the sailboard in these circumstances. Being right does not necessarily mean you are not a prat.
Its a bit like a yacht sailing across the bows of a tanker and claiming the tanker was in the wrong to run him down
Like Dave my understanding is that the sailing vessel would have right of way whatever side he came from.
Not that I have much sympathy with the sailboard in these circumstances. Being right does not necessarily mean you are not a prat.
Its a bit like a yacht sailing across the bows of a tanker and claiming the tanker was in the wrong to run him down
Yes, Bergman is surely right. There are a few situations where sail gives way to power, most obviously when sail is overtaking power (ie approaching from more than two points (22.5 degrees) abaft the beam) and when the powered vessel is limited in its ability to manoeuvre. This situation doesnt sound like either of those.
So by the book the power boat should give way, but surely by the time the 7 knot vessel's skipper is able to judge whether he'son collision course, it is almost too late to take effective action to avoid the windsurfer. People with high speed craft (sail or power) need a lot of common sense as well as understanding the coll regs, but often seem to have less sense than your average boater!
So by the book the power boat should give way, but surely by the time the 7 knot vessel's skipper is able to judge whether he'son collision course, it is almost too late to take effective action to avoid the windsurfer. People with high speed craft (sail or power) need a lot of common sense as well as understanding the coll regs, but often seem to have less sense than your average boater!
davel
Active member
I've double checked my understanding of the ColRegs and Johndf is correct. in the circumstances described, the Windsurfer was the stand-on vessel.
I'm not sure that I agree with the point that the faster vessel should have got out of the way because the slower vessel wouldn't have had time to judge the speed though. Try applying the same logic to a sailing vessel (or motor boat) and a high speed ferry. I doubt that you'd expect the ferry to abandon the rules of the road and make up his own version simply because he saw a slower vessel.
As it happens I can well appreciate that the windsurfer might have been being a bit of a pratt - it does happen. On the other hand, a windsufer isn't easy to sail and making progress upwind (perhaps to get behind the stern of a crossing motorboat for example) can be very difficult and often impossible. The alternative of tacking or gybing out of the way is frought with the very real danger of falling off.
I'm not sure that I agree with the point that the faster vessel should have got out of the way because the slower vessel wouldn't have had time to judge the speed though. Try applying the same logic to a sailing vessel (or motor boat) and a high speed ferry. I doubt that you'd expect the ferry to abandon the rules of the road and make up his own version simply because he saw a slower vessel.
As it happens I can well appreciate that the windsurfer might have been being a bit of a pratt - it does happen. On the other hand, a windsufer isn't easy to sail and making progress upwind (perhaps to get behind the stern of a crossing motorboat for example) can be very difficult and often impossible. The alternative of tacking or gybing out of the way is frought with the very real danger of falling off.
Yes Dave, I agree that however fast the vessel, if it is the 'Stand-on' then technically it should stand-on. But for small fast boats, which often don't go very stright anyway, a small course change some way off will be enough to avoid any risk of collision, long before the slower vessel has been able to determine that there is a risk of collision.
davel
Active member
Rich,
If you can't stop safely then you're in contravention of Rule 6 (Safe speed). See http://www.wasserratten.loebbecke.org/colreg/rule4.htm#Rule 4
Gosh I can't believe I'm acting like a "Jobs Worth" traffic warden !!!
If you can't stop safely then you're in contravention of Rule 6 (Safe speed). See http://www.wasserratten.loebbecke.org/colreg/rule4.htm#Rule 4
Gosh I can't believe I'm acting like a "Jobs Worth" traffic warden !!!
I once watched a "sailboard regatta" in Filey Bay.
There were boards going at enormous speeds in all directions. At any given moment about 50% of them were in the water rather than on the board.
I had a brief conversation with the local Coastguard (it was some years ago)
"look at the daft b****s" he said "They don't know wether they're in distress or not, how the **** am I supposed to know?"
Maybe the answere is to have the signals for a vessel restricted in her ability to manouvre handy and hoist them when these things approach.
They may even know what they mean.
There were boards going at enormous speeds in all directions. At any given moment about 50% of them were in the water rather than on the board.
I had a brief conversation with the local Coastguard (it was some years ago)
"look at the daft b****s" he said "They don't know wether they're in distress or not, how the **** am I supposed to know?"
Maybe the answere is to have the signals for a vessel restricted in her ability to manouvre handy and hoist them when these things approach.
They may even know what they mean.