Safety Equipment.

[coopec]

No worries about the years of life of a liferaft apparently. I had budgeted about $2500 for a six man raft.

How long does a life raft last?
Raft manufacturers warranty most life rafts for 10 or 12 years, based on servicing according to their recommendations. In fact, a raft that is kept dry and is regularly repacked may last for 20 years or more until it is condemned by a factory-authorized service station.Jan 21, 2015

 

[coopec]

I got it! I'll pick it up in the morning at 9.00pm

Thanks everyone for your help

 

[[163233]]

It's normal for liferafts to require a grab bag to bring the equipment levels up to spec, it reduces the servicing costs by limiting the amount of stuff in them and sharing some of it with the boat (flares, HH VHF, etc). I wouldn't normally expect an EPIRB in the raft as they cost a lot and you'd want to be able to set it off without opening the raft first. Mine's on the transom with a hydrostatic release for instance.

I had a very old out of date raft when I bought my boat, and set it off in a pool here. It inflated fine and stayed usable for almost a week before it started deflating. I would expect a modern properly serviced raft to do better than that, but a week in a raft is a long time.

I'm surprised a marine rescue organisation would flog off a raft they they consider to be beyond its useful life.

 

[coopec]

It's normal for liferafts to require a grab bag to bring the equipment levels up to spec, it reduces the servicing costs by limiting the amount of stuff in them and sharing some of it with the boat (flares, HH VHF, etc). I wouldn't normally expect an EPIRB in the raft as they cost a lot and you'd want to be able to set it off without opening the raft first. Mine's on the transom with a hydrostatic release for instance.

I had a very old out of date raft when I bought my boat, and set it off in a pool here. It inflated fine and stayed usable for almost a week before it started deflating. I would expect a modern properly serviced raft to do better than that, but a week in a raft is a long time.

I'm surprised a marine rescue organisation would flog off a raft they they consider to be beyond its useful life.

When I looked at the valise it definitely stated there was an epirb included. Of course, like you, I would have a separate epirb and probably mounted on the transom as you have.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I got it! I'll pick it up in the morning at 9.00pm

Thanks everyone for your help

Clive as said before look closely at your local regulations and the requirements for ship registration regulations.

As an example we have different regulations and safety equipment requirements dependant how far from the shore we are allowed to go.

we have categories A to E when A is unlimited distance from shore and E is 1 nm from shore and rengine 40nm 15 nm 5 nm and 1nm for E

If only A the required a life raft and EPIRB but we do need a life raft if we go more then 30 nm from a safe haven.

The UK don't really have any legal requirement for a pleasure vessel commercial vessels are code by MCA.

I have a 6 man viking offshore like raft and my boat is required for 6 people on board ( 6 like jackets) but I don't think I will ever have 6 on board for voyages over 40 nm of shore but maybe for local day trips.

Have you consider hiring a life raft for the long offshore trips may be more cost effective in the long run when you consider the purchase cost and the service costs. Mine is every 3 years and is about the 1.3 to 1/4 of the cost of a new life raft. With our current exchange rate it is now more costly.

 

[LadyInBed]

Raft manufacturers warranty most life rafts for 10 or 12 years, based on servicing according to their recommendations. In fact, a raft that is kept dry and is regularly repacked may last for 20 years or more until it is condemned by a factory-authorized service station.Jan 21, 2015

My raft was due its 2nd service, instead of sending it off I decided to unpack it and service it myself.
When unpacked I found that the painter wasn't attached to the launch / inflation cord!
The most difficult part was getting it back in the bag.

 

[Strikeliner]

I notice that the O.P. is based in Australia. Australian Regs. set out in the NSCV state that a liferaft must have a EPIRB packed with it. This is not the case in the UK.
I am sure that a raft once owned by a rescue organisation has been correctly looked after. That unfortunately does not mean that it will be cheap to own.
Beware of buying cheap secondhand liferafts at all times.The O.P. stated that he had been given estimates for the service on the raft. It is quite likely that these estimates are for the survey, test and repack only. Any parts requiring replacement will be extra. I would estimate that on an RFD raft where spares costs are set by Survitec, you can at least double these estimates. He MUST re register the EPIRB to his vessel details and if the EPIRB needs a new battery that will be an additional hefty cost.
Plus in some cases you may be looking at raft once owned by a clown who thinks he can service his own raft. A recipe for disaster.
Quite possibly better to buy an new raft or rather, as one poster said hire one. That way costs are known in advance and service charges are included in the hire charge. You can also be sure with reputable companies that the raft will have been serviced by manufacturer trained service staff using correctly sourced components and correct procedures.

 

[pvb]

I notice that the O.P. is based in Australia. Australian Regs. set out in the NSCV state that a liferaft must have a EPIRB packed with it. This is not the case in the UK.
I am sure that a raft once owned by a rescue organisation has been correctly looked after. That unfortunately does not mean that it will be cheap to own.
Beware of buying cheap secondhand liferafts at all times.The O.P. stated that he had been given estimates for the service on the raft. It is quite likely that these estimates are for the survey, test and repack only. Any parts requiring replacement will be extra. I would estimate that on an RFD raft where spares costs are set by Survitec, you can at least double these estimates. He MUST re register the EPIRB to his vessel details and if the EPIRB needs a new battery that will be an additional hefty cost.
Plus in some cases you may be looking at raft once owned by a clown who thinks he can service his own raft. A recipe for disaster.
Quite possibly better to buy an new raft or rather, as one poster said hire one. That way costs are known in advance and service charges are included in the hire charge. You can also be sure with reputable companies that the raft will have been serviced by manufacturer trained service staff using correctly sourced components and correct procedures.

The OP said the raft was described as "Return for service 30.6.2016", which suggests it's 4 years overdue for a service! Doesn't sound like correctly looked after to me.

I agree with you that the service costs will be substantially higher than estimated.

 

[penberth3]

The OP said the raft was described as "Return for service 30.6.2016", which suggests it's 4 years overdue for a service! Doesn't sound like correctly looked after to me....

Could have been out of use in a store.

 

[coopec]

It's normal for liferafts to require a grab bag to bring the equipment levels up to spec, it reduces the servicing costs by limiting the amount of stuff in them and sharing some of it with the boat (flares, HH VHF, etc). I wouldn't normally expect an EPIRB in the raft as they cost a lot and you'd want to be able to set it off without opening the raft first. Mine's on the transom with a hydrostatic release for instance.

I had a very old out of date raft when I bought my boat, and set it off in a pool here. It inflated fine and stayed usable for almost a week before it started deflating. I would expect a modern properly serviced raft to do better than that, but a week in a raft is a long time.

I'm surprised a marine rescue organisation would flog off a raft they they consider to be beyond its useful life.

When I looked at the valise it definitely stated there was an epirb included. Of course, like you, I would have a separate epirb and probably mounted on the transom as you have.

 

[coopec]

The OP said the raft was described as "Return for service 30.6.2016", which suggests it's 4 years overdue for a service! Doesn't sound like correctly looked after to me.

I agree with you that the service costs will be substantially higher than estimated.

I'm quite sure the Volunteer Rescue Service would know how to look after a liferaft ? But why didn't they continue with its' use? (I know the guys at the Sea Rescue organization so I will get the story)

I've bought it anyway and for the price I paid I will get a cheap epirb!

 

[coopec]

I obviously bought a Type - 2 which is fine. There is a third category apparently SOLAS,

ISO 9650 Type-1 rafts are the most appropriate for boats encountering real offshore conditions including high seas and heavy winds. Two independent, stacked tubes provide redundant flotation should one chamber become damaged. The stacked tube design also provides more freeboard. Many have two entrances, with one entrance including an inflatable boarding ladder to get you aboard from the water. The second entrance is often designed so you can step directly aboard from your disabled vessel.
All have self-erecting canopies. Most will have deep triangular or rectangular ballast bags and a large drogue for stability. Two subgroups fall within this category: Group-A is designed to inflate properly in air temperatures between -15 °C and + 65 °C, and Group-B is designed to inflate properly in air temperatures between 0°C and + 65 °C.

ISO 9650 Type-2 rafts are designed for navigating in coastal and inshore waters and for the risks associated with more sheltered waters where moderate conditions may be met, in areas such as (but not limited to) coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes and rivers. These rafts typically include an Equipment Pack with minimal gear and rations, intended for locations where rescue within 24 hours is likely

SOLAS Transoceanic life rafts: Intended for the toughest conditions, with water temperatures below 41°F, these rafts include the most extensive list of equipment and are the most heavily built to allow self-sufficient survival for extended periods of time. Far from land, rescue agencies and safe harbors, you must have a raft in which you can survive for a week or more. Rafts for offshore use should be more commodious and should have greater stability to survive storms at sea. SOLAS rafts are carried onboard boats in round-the-world races like the Volvo Ocean Race.

 

[William_H]

Hi Clive I think you are right to grab it if it is a good price. RFD in Fremantle will be able to service it. I used to do an audit on them annually for aviation approval so I know they are good. Although there are others around town who could do service.
On the other hand you might like to hold on to it until you look like needing it then get it serviced. (no I don't mean just before the ship sinks)
You will be some time I imagine before the boat is launched then time sailing locally to get used to everything. (shake down cruise)
I don't know of any requirements for you to carry a life raft just the published DoT requirements for safety gear. That is apart from the moral responsibility to care for your crew and passengers. Here I would suggest that in stead of doing what you think is a fair thing you follow Australian Sailing safety standards and equipment for ocean racing. These standards come in categories from 7 minimum up to cat 1 for long races beyond help. Special Regulations
Here is the audit form (requirements for cat 1) https://cdn.revolutionise.com.au/site/fnszb29mpoqqjiql.pdf
Keep at it Clive you will get there ol'will

 

[coopec]

Hi Clive I think you are right to grab it if it is a good price. RFD in Fremantle will be able to service it. I used to do an audit on them annually for aviation approval so I know they are good. Although there are others around town who could do service.
On the other hand you might like to hold on to it until you look like needing it then get it serviced. (no I don't mean just before the ship sinks)
You will be some time I imagine before the boat is launched then time sailing locally to get used to everything. (shake down cruise)
I don't know of any requirements for you to carry a life raft just the published DoT requirements for safety gear. That is apart from the moral responsibility to care for your crew and passengers. Here I would suggest that in stead of doing what you think is a fair thing you follow Australian Sailing safety standards and equipment for ocean racing. These standards come in categories from 7 minimum up to cat 1 for long races beyond help. Special Regulations
Here is the audit form (requirements for cat 1) https://cdn.revolutionise.com.au/site/fnszb29mpoqqjiql.pdf
Keep at it Clive you will get there ol'will

Thanks for your thoughts.

Hopefully it won't be long too long before the launch but, as you suggest, I will wait to the last minute before getting it serviced. It will be ideal for a shakedown cruise but then I would want a Type 1 life raft for offshore cruising. I'm not sure that there is any requirement to carry a life raft but even a "out of service" life raft would be better than no life raft at all.

I will read the links later this morning. Cheers

NOTE: I've just been out and picked it up. I told the guy will have it serviced in Perth. He said "No! No! the Volunteer Sea Group will do it in town: it will cost you nothing"

 

[Strikeliner]

Coopec,
Very good summary of the ISO liferaft specs. Having got the RFD Pt 2 raft don't get too hung up on the differences between it and the Pt 1'. They aren't exactly game changing .Particularly in terms of the RFD . There are differences in the safety pack options but not massively in construction. In the UK they are only very relevant if a vessel is operating commercially. If you are leisure only it is not as important. I guess the same may be true in Aussie. If you are ever in need of taking advantage of the attributes of the liferaft ( i.e. you are in trouble and have to abandon to the raft- remember this is always a LAST resort), you will want it to float! A Pt2 raft floats in exactly the same way as a Pt1. It is only guaranteed to float if it inflates properly and does not leak. You may be detecting a note of sarcasm here, apologies.

Whilst there are plenty of naysayers to be found on this forum your best chances of this happening are met by having the raft serviced by an approved trained full time service station. If the Rescue guys fit this description fine, if not I would suggest you think again. Your call.

You mentioned that SOLAS rafts need to be able to sustain occupants for a week. SOLAS rafts will certainly float for a week but they carry 1.5 litres of water per person. Your raft will also do a good job of floating for a week. There will be a pump inside to help keep it that way. The SOLAS A pack provides for 500ml of water per day per person 500ml perday . Give or take. This is not enough to last for a week. Volvo Ocean Rafts carry a reverse osmosis pump to desalinate water and as a consequence they only have 500ml per person packed with the raft.

Water is by far the most important consumable in a survival situation and so the crew of ANY vessel abandoning to a raft should take as much drinking water with them.
There for to supplement the "less than 24 hr pack" that you will probably have in your raft you would be well served to put together an extra grab bag to your requirements and take that with you.

I hope that this has not sounded too pompous, it's not meant to be. Keep your kit and your boat maintained as I am sure you will, have a safety emergency plan known to you and your crew where everyone knows what to do and you will be fine,

Happy sailing

 

[coopec]

Coopec,
Very good summary of the ISO liferaft specs. Having got the RFD Pt 2 raft don't get too hung up on the differences between it and the Pt 1'. They aren't exactly game changing .Particularly in terms of the RFD . There are differences in the safety pack options but not massively in construction. In the UK they are only very relevant if a vessel is operating commercially. If you are leisure only it is not as important. I guess the same may be true in Aussie. If you are ever in need of taking advantage of the attributes of the liferaft ( i.e. you are in trouble and have to abandon to the raft- remember this is always a LAST resort), you will want it to float! A Pt2 raft floats in exactly the same way as a Pt1. It is only guaranteed to float if it inflates properly and does not leak. You may be detecting a note of sarcasm here, apologies.

Whilst there are plenty of naysayers to be found on this forum your best chances of this happening are met by having the raft serviced by an approved trained full time service station. If the Rescue guys fit this description fine, if not I would suggest you think again. Your call.

You mentioned that SOLAS rafts need to be able to sustain occupants for a week. SOLAS rafts will certainly float for a week but they carry 1.5 litres of water per person. Your raft will also do a good job of floating for a week. There will be a pump inside to help keep it that way. The SOLAS A pack provides for 500ml of water per day per person 500ml perday . Give or take. This is not enough to last for a week. Volvo Ocean Rafts carry a reverse osmosis pump to desalinate water and as a consequence they only have 500ml per person packed with the raft.

Water is by far the most important consumable in a survival situation and so the crew of ANY vessel abandoning to a raft should take as much drinking water with them.
There for to supplement the "less than 24 hr pack" that you will probably have in your raft you would be well served to put together an extra grab bag to your requirements and take that with you.

I hope that this has not sounded too pompous, it's not meant to be. Keep your kit and your boat maintained as I am sure you will, have a safety emergency plan known to you and your crew where everyone knows what to do and you will be fine,

Happy sailing

I would only use the RFD life raft I have for coastal waters so you'd expect almost immediate help once the epirb was switched on.

But for open water I would buy the ISO 9650 -1 which is for open water.

I didn't realise the epirb batteries cost $125. (I'll check to see if I can buy cheap Chinese batteries on eBay?)

 

[William_H]

Hi Clive
I am guessing that your cruising will be in tropical waters. So any concern about double bottom or insulation won't matter re type 1 or 2. The concerns about water carried is more important but more water should be carried in a grab bag. EPIRB batteries are usually specially made shaped so tend to be specific to that EPIRB. If the EPIRB does not have a built in GPS you might be better off buying a new one with GPS. This transmits your position instantly rather than the simpler non GPS where location is derived over a period of time from the satellites. Yes try the Sea Search and Rescue group re LR service but I do find his difficult to believe. ol'will

 

[Roberto]

There is a third category apparently SOLAS,



SOLAS Transoceanic life rafts: Intended for the toughest conditions, with water temperatures below 41°F, these rafts include the most extensive list of equipment and are the most heavily built to allow self-sufficient survival for extended periods of time. Far from land, rescue agencies and safe harbors, you must have a raft in which you can survive for a week or more. Rafts for offshore use should be more commodious and should have greater stability to survive storms at sea. SOLAS rafts are carried onboard boats in round-the-world races like the Volvo Ocean Race.

IIRC the main difference of Solas liferafts is they are self-righting, they have a very tall canopy.

 

[coopec]

IIRC the main difference of Solas liferafts is they are self-righting, they have a very tall canopy.

I've had a look at a number of video clips and one shows how to flip a raft over. But I wasn't aware the life raft (RFD 4 man coastal water) is not self righting.

I have now given the local RFD servicing people (Servitec?) complete details of the life raft I have - including the Ser. No. From that they will be able to tell me how old the raft is and whether I should spend money on t (I'm sure I should) But I won't get the service done until my yacht is in the water.

As far as the epirb is concerned there are two brands of epirbs installed (McMurdo and ?). The ISO Standards requires the battery to be replaced by the manufacturer otherwise the raft will not meet the legal requiremnts. (I will get my epirb battery installed by the manufacturer even though there is no legal rquirement as far as I am concerned).

Thanks for that info. ?

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I've had a look at a number of video clips and one shows how to flip a raft over. But I wasn't aware the life raft (RFD 4 man coastal water) is not self righting.

I have now given the local RFD servicing people (Servitec?) complete details of the life raft I have - including the Ser. No. From that they will be able to tell me how old the raft is and whether I should spend money on t (I'm sure I should) But I won't get the service done until my yacht is in the water.

As far as the epirb is concerned there are two brands of epirbs installed (McMurdo and ?). The ISO Standards requires the battery to be replaced by the manufacturer otherwise the raft will not meet the legal requiremnts. (I will get my epirb battery installed by the manufacturer even though there is no legal rquirement as far as I am concerned).

Thanks for that info. ?

I used to fly maritime patrol for a living. Our rafts were not self righting. I wouldn't get hung up on it as if you ever need to get in it you will summon the ability to right even the largest raft. we regularly practiced righting an MS10 (10 man life raft) singlehanded.