Sadler 25 upgrades and general wittering

[Willham]

I’m just a couple of months into ownership of my Sadler 25, and I need an outlet for my obsession. My family have no interest and I have nowhere else to share my thoughts, so I’m just going to witter on here. Apologies.

I recently sailed back from Cowes to Medway Yacht Club, with the assistance of a skipper (Chris Markham from Markham Marine - a brilliant and very knowledgeable guy all round). It was a fantastic trip over three days with stops in Eastbourne and Ramsgate. This was followed by my first weekend of single-handing on the weekend just gone. My early experiences of the boat have been overwhelmingly positive, but I do have a couple of niggles to sort out and general up-keep type jobs, including:
- wiring to the board for the tiller-pilot
- fitting a spray hood and dodgers
- fitting a stack pack and lazy jacks (plus adding cars to the mainsail)
- bracing the foredeck (where there is a bit of movement underfoot)
- replacing the stern gland (which is dripping when under power)
- possibly replacing the aging engine mounts (which may be the cause of the stern gland leak I’m told)
- making the interior more homely (reupholstering and doing a bit of painting)
- sanding and varnishing wood around the companionway and replacing a wooden cap on the sliding hatch
- finally, I’m considering a whether it would be a big job to fit a secondary ignition and cutout switch in the cockpit, which would make single-handing rather easier. On this last point, I’d appreciate advice on how to do this and views whether it is a very involved job or a DIY task.

You may have guessed, I’ve become slightly obsessive about my boat, and am keen to make one of the best example of its kind. I’m hauling out mid November and am looking forward to getting stuck in to my list of jobs. I’ll shut up now! Some pics below of my humble S25

 

[Tranona]

Last on e first. You don't say what engine, but most were available with an extension wiring harness and that would be the easiest way, although I would not bother with dual panels - just the one in the cockpit. However you will need to protect it by recessing and having some form of cover. On most modern engines you have the option of a water resistant push button panel. My last 3 boats have that. security is ensured by having a dedicated engine start battery with an isolator in the cabin.

For canvas work I am sure you will find a local supplier who will come and measure for both. You might get a bit of a shock when you get the price, though. Likewise reupholstery - very labour intensive but you don't need "marine". I had mine done by somebody whose main business was renovating buses.

There are some Sadler 25 owners on here who can advise on the engine mounts/stuffing box and other Sadler specific items, and of course the owners association.

 

[Willham]

Last on e first. You don't say what engine, but most were available with an extension wiring harness and that would be the easiest way, although I would not bother with dual panels - just the one in the cockpit. However you will need to protect it by recessing and having some form of cover. On most modern engines you have the option of a water resistant push button panel. My last 3 boats have that. security is ensured by having a dedicated engine start battery with an isolator in the cabin.

For canvas work I am sure you will find a local supplier who will come and measure for both. You might get a bit of a shock when you get the price, though. Likewise reupholstery - very labour intensive but you don't need "marine". I had mine done by somebody whose main business was renovating buses.

There are some Sadler 25 owners on here who can advise on the engine mounts/stuffing box and other Sadler specific items, and of course the owners association.

Thanks for your reply. My engine is a newish 10hp Beta in good shape. The engine mounts look a good bit older than the engine, but you’d think they’d have been replaced at the same time.

I’ve had quotes for the canvas work from my local supplier (Wilkinsons in Faversham) - and it ain’t cheap, but I expected that.

I also have joined the Sadler and Starlight owners club, but the forum there seems very quiet. There is no shortage of advice from the very active Medway Yacht Club too, so I’ll lean on them as well!

 

[Sadler25Owner]

If you “do“ Facebook the Sadler and Starlight Owners Association group has a lot of collective knowledge.
My stuffing box was leaking and I replaced it with a PSS seal. As Tranona says, engine mountings are very dependent on what engine (presumably) your S25 has been re-engined with. I’d be a little bit worried about the movement in the foredeck as I don’t recall any significant movement in mine (now sold).

 

[Sadler25Owner]

The FB group is much more active than the SSOA forum!

 

[Willham]

If you “do“ Facebook the Sadler and Starlight Owners Association group has a lot of collective knowledge.
My stuffing box was leaking and I replaced it with a PSS seal. As Tranona says, engine mountings are very dependent on what engine (presumably) your S25 has been re-engined with. I’d be a little bit worried about the movement in the foredeck as I don’t recall any significant movement in mine (now sold).

Before I bought the boat, I spoke to Mike Lucas, who seems to be the preeminent Sadler guru (having built and sold them for about 25 years or thereabouts), and he was not unduly concerned by the movement on the deck, saying that it wasn’t uncommon and that they are not especially well braced. It’s not cracking or leaking, so it doesn’t seem urgent, but I’ll get it looked at anyhow.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Congratulations, the 25 is a lovely boat. Is she fin or bilge?
I have done some of the bits that you have listed, but fortunately the previous owner had also done a lot of it before I purchased her.
Spray hood certainly worth it, but the 25 sprayhood is quite shallow.
I have thought about spray dodgers but didn't in the end as I felt they would interfere too much with the genoa sheets and cruising cruising chute sheets.
Fitted stackpack but no cars, I don't think they are needed.
Haven't noticed any flexing in the foredeck, so can't comment on this.
I have to tighten the stern gland (old style pacing) this winter, they always do drip a little but mine has started to drip a little more than it should, it's the getting out of the port cockpit locker that is the hardest part of this job.
I am sure the engine mounts would have been replaced when the Beta engine was installed (nice engines the small Betas, I fitted a Beta 10 to my previous boat, but my S25 has the Beta 14 which came with it.)
If you look in the current 'Boat value and old boat recycling' thread in Scuttlebutt you should find a couple of photo's of the additional woodwork that I have put in down below.
On the SSOA in the 25 section you will find the Sadler factory home finishing details which may help you with some of your mods'
I have made a few other additions which if you are interested in I can attach photo's.

 

[Willham]

Congratulations, the 25 is a lovely boat. Is she fin or bilge?
I have done some of the bits that you have listed, but fortunately the previous owner had also done a lot of it before I purchased her.
Spray hood certainly worth it, but the 25 sprayhood is quite shallow.
I have thought about spray dodgers but didn't in the end as I felt they would interfere too much with the genoa sheets and cruising cruising chute sheets.
Fitted stackpack but no cars, I don't think they are needed.
Haven't noticed any flexing in the foredeck, so can't comment on this.
I have to tighten the stern gland (old style pacing) this winter, they always do drip a little but mine has started to drip a little more than it should, it's the getting out of the port cockpit locker that is the hardest part of this job.
I am sure the engine mounts would have been replaced when the Beta engine was installed (nice engines the small Betas, I fitted a Beta 10 to my previous boat, but my S25 has the Beta 14 which came with it.)
If you look in the current 'Boat value and old boat recycling' thread in Scuttlebutt you should find a couple of photo's of the additional woodwork that I have put in down below.
On the SSOA in the 25 section you will find the Sadler factory home finishing details which may help you with some of your mods'
I have made a few other additions which if you are interested in I can attach photo's.

Thanks very much for that info - most helpful. I was planning to fit cars to the sail, as it seems the current setup with a beaded sail fed into the mast track doesn’t lend itself to single handing, requiring someone to be at the mast when hauling up (to feed the sail in) and to help pull it out when dousing the sail (it won’t slide out of the mast track without a little help). I was planning to fit a mast track gate and cars so that it would (in theory) just drop into the stack pack sail bag. I should then be able to raise and lower the main from the cockpit (the lines are already fed back).

I’m interested to see the woodwork plus any other additions you have fitted - please do share the pics!

 

[Willham]

Thanks very much for that info - most helpful. I was planning to fit cars to the sail, as it seems the current setup with a beaded sail fed into the mast track doesn’t lend itself to single handing, requiring someone to be at the mast when hauling up (to feed the sail in) and to help pull it out when dousing the sail (it won’t slide out of the mast track without a little help). I was planning to fit a mast track gate and cars so that it would (in theory) just drop into the stack pack sail bag. I should then be able to raise and lower the main from the cockpit (the lines are already fed back).

I’m interested to see the woodwork plus any other additions you have fitted - please do share the pics!

It’s a fin keel by the way!

 

[Praxinoscope]

My main has just standard sliders and drops down into the stackpack, I do a fair bit of single handed and as the halyards, vang and No 1 singe line reef are all fed back to the cockpit, I don't normally need to go up to the mast when underway.
I have never had problems raising or lowering the main and it is only the last 18" of raising the main that I need the winch.
Will add a few more images later.
Raced a friends fin keeler about 40 years ago, it was what convinced me of the quality of sailing that the S25 provides, but because of the drying Aberaeron harbour myS25 is bilge.
Hope you found the images on the other thread.

 

[Willham]

The hull is a lovely shape!

 

[Praxinoscope]

#11 Nice, she looks in good nick.

 

[Willham]

My main has just standard sliders and drops down into the stackpack, I do a fair bit of single handed and as the halyards, vang and No 1 singe line reef are all fed back to the cockpit, I don't normally need to go up to the mast when underway.
I have never had problems raising or lowering the main and it is only the last 18" of raising the main that I need the winch.
Will add a few more images later.
Raced a friends fin keeler about 40 years ago, it was what convinced me of the quality of sailing that the S25 provides, but because of the drying Aberaeron harbour myS25 is bilge.
Hope you found the images on the other thread.

I think maybe I'm using the wrong terminology - I think I meant sliders instead of cars. Cars are probably unnecessary. Currently mine is simply a beaded sail - no sliders, and drops out of the mast track quite high above the boom.

 

[doug748]

The engine feet are cheaply plated and any whiff of seawater tends to lead to corrosion of the bell, which is mostly cosmetic. If you feel you need to replace them they are relatively inexpensive about £35 each pre Covid. Put grease on the new ones.
Your deck is probably ok and the stern gland may just need adjustment or repacking. Solid GRP foredecks tend to pant a bit, unlike composite decks, the quid pro quo is that they are much less of a long term maintenance concern.
If your backstay uses a single U bolt at the stern I would replace it and consider a slightly larger item, they have been known to fail due to corrosion.
Lovely boats.

.

 

[William_H]

Congratulations on a fine boat. The photos look grand. Incidentally the shape of the fin keel with a lot of sweep back is primarily so that the boat can sit on the keel and be balanced fore and aft. A straight fin is possibly better for sailing.
I have always used a main sail with bolt rope into the mast slot. ie no slugs or cars. (except one slug at top) (that is essential if you reef the main) I am sure you have one there. Yes I always sail with a crew but mostly it is not hard to pull sail up or pull down from mast base. Reefing actually is far easier with bolt rope as it just comes out of track at bottom. A guide at the entrance to the track helps to get sail back in if taking reef out while sailing. I do however accept that most people use slugs and leave slugs in sail track when main sail is stowed. You will need a new sail cover shaped to cover sail in mast. Or a cleaver bag for stack pack.
So in a way all your project ideas are nice to haves. Always good to dream. But in reality you should get some sailing in as is, and firm up your needs. Don't be dismayed if ideas don't come to fruition. Even small jobs like cleaning and polishing can give pleasure. Enjoy the lay up. ol'will

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for your reply. My engine is a newish 10hp Beta in good shape. The engine mounts look a good bit older than the engine, but you’d think they’d have been replaced at the same time.

Beta have either a dual station control panel kit or an extension harness. Speak to them.

 

[On the Slea]

Hi Willham
Well what a coincidence, I'm three days into my ownership of a fin keeled Sadler 25 which Chris Markham bought up from Fambridge Yacht haven to Wisbech, Cambridgeshire. Due to work commitments I couldn't join him but he did mention bringing yours to Medway.
Can't help what so ever with any of your maintenance issues as I'm a complete newbie myself but he did mention my stern gland needs either adjusting or repacking and the remote greaser was empty, (forgot to ask what type of grease).
I don't even know anyone locally so a sharp learning curve is in order.
Incidentally, I was born and lived in Chatham for 40 years so know Medway far more than I know the tricky Nene and the Wash.

 

[Praxinoscope]

'On the Slea', congratulations, another wise purchaser that appreciates the Sadler 25.
PM me if you need a bit of info on how soeone else has done something things on a 25, you mention the stern gland, adjustment is 'easy' as long as you are small enough and agile enough to get into (and more importantly Out of) the Port cockpit locker, replacing the packing is a bit more difficult but with luck you won't have to.
I use 'Ramonol' white grease, available from most chandlers, for stern gland greasing. To make sure that the plastic grease pipe is clear of solidified grease, undo it at the stern gland and turn the greasing knob and see if grease comes through.
I have a Sadler diagram and stern gland servicing instructions which I can forward to you if it helps.
Strangely enough my S25 came from the Woodford Suffolk area across to West Wales.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Here's the Sadler 25 stern gland info"

 

[Neil]

I had a Sadler 25 for several years and it's a great boat - safe as houses. I once went well past the the point of reefing and need both hands and outstretched arms to hold the tiller but when it eventually lost traction, the boat rounded up as easy as you like. Speaking of reefing, it's worthwhile putting a reef in the jib fairly early (bf 3 or 4); the boat doesn't go any slower but is much easier to handle.

I fitted a spray hood and it was a worthwhile investment. I also fitted a tiller pilot, but the boat already had an additional board for lights and instruments, so it was no bother.

I remember once motor sailing, wind against tide, on the tiller pilot and huddled under the spray hood hanging on to a winch with waves crashing over the deck. Ah, those were the days!