Sad case of deaths at sea.....not keeping watch

[scottie]

But that scenario happens all to often, larger vessels charging through close to shore not giving a second thought how their wash/wake will negativity effect other water users.

Its petrifying being on a small boat with HUGE vessels being the "Boy racers" and causing chaos and potential swamping and sinking of anything less than 18ft say,

There are so many small water users out there....kayakers, small day fishing boats, Jetskis, Swimmers, Paddleboarders etc.

Like said match speed to current conditions, Visibility and other traffic.

Not hard to do but bigger boats skippers tend to be either arrogant, ignorant or both....Cant decide which and use their skipper tickets to gain the hierarchy over all other vessels.

?

 

[Aardee]

Well yeah seen as he is the captain and the one in charge of the vessel...yes!

I wouldn't ask a front seat passenger of a car to help me keep a watch on the road. I'm the driver its therefore soley my responsibility.

He wasn't piloting the bloody Titanic, Most vessles have good all round visibility. If he was on auto there was nothing tying him to the helm and could have easily walked the bridge to look at horizon himself.

I understand some vessels need crew to do different things but dont rely on somebody elses word.

I take it you never spend multiple days or even weeks at sea. A good skipper has to delegate and manage crew workload and fatigue. If fatigue was a factor here you'd be SHOUTING about LACK OF SLEEP causing DEATHS.

 

[MystyBlue2]

I take it you never spend multiple days or even weeks at sea. A good skipper has to delegate and manage crew workload and fatigue. If fatigue was a factor here you'd be SHOUTING about LACK OF SLEEP causing DEATHS.

What i mean by that is yes, Obviously have crewmen as you do need a break on long voyages but never take anybodys word as gospel.

As the captain, The man in charge he should take a look for himself and not rely on others.

If I'm at a blind corner in a car and a passenger says "Your ok this side mate" i still need to look and check. Not saying i dont trust my passenger BUT i am in control of that vehicle therefore it is MY responsibility to keep a look.

Have them for extra eyes yes, Taking advantage of having crew so you can sit on autopilot and social media?....Definitely not.

 

[Pye_End]

Night sailing is all about lights, whether it be flashing ones or traffic. Unlit hazards including unlit buoys marked on charts sometimes need carefull consideration on how to best avoid - and usually at some distance. Easier with plotters than 'the old days', but always a concern. All light or clusters should be identified, even if it is 'that is a lot of lights I don't understand, but at least I can see where it is going'. Seeing clusters of lights is often hard, and takes considerable time and concentration to work them out, at the expensse of looking in other direction. Unlit hazards not marked on charts are always down to chance - eg lobster pots, logs, shipping containers etc., and we accept the numbers on this as we have little control of avoiding. We can all hit things at night if we can't see them.

Adding unlit and uncharted hazards with people on board is the same numbers game, and is just plain nuts.

 

[Aardee]

As the captain, The man in charge he should take a look for himself and not rely on others.

Sorry, but that's just nonsense. You have to trust your crew or it's not worth carrying the extra weight. I suspect we all go off watch with the instruction "if anything unusual happens or you see something you don't understand or aren't comfortable with, wake me up" - In the instance of the watch leader not seeing something that is there but unlit what are they supposed to do?

 

[scottie]

But that scenario happens all to often, larger vessels charging through close to shore not giving a second thought how their wash/wake will negativity effect other water users.

Its petrifying being on a small boat with HUGE vessels being the "Boy racers" and causing chaos and potential swamping and sinking of anything less than 18ft say,

There are so many small water users out there....kayakers, small day fishing boats, Jetskis, Swimmers, Paddleboarders etc.

Like said match speed to current conditions, Visibility and other traffic.

Not hard to do but bigger boats skippers tend to be either arrogant, ignorant or both....Cant decide which and use their skipper tickets to gain the hierarchy over all other vessels.

Perhaps being petrified might preclude your ability to be competent and in control of your vessel and you might be best leave boating to other more robust souls

 

[MystyBlue2]

Perhaps being petrified might preclude your ability to be competent and in control of your vessel and you might be best leave boating to other more robust souls

And leave boating to arrogant "Boy racer skippers" sorry they already think they own the bloody oceans without leaving the ocean to huge vessels only.

A bit of consideration to others is completely free of charge and takes no effort!

 

[Aardee]

Perhaps being petrified might preclude your ability to be competent and in control of your vessel and you might be best leave boating to other more robust souls

Maybe a bit harsh, but it's amazing how different people's perceptions of the same situation can be. Our friend Dan does make it sound like a cat crossing a motorway.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Maybe a bit harsh, but it's amazing how different people's perceptions of the same situation can be. Our friend Dan does make it sound like a cat crossing a motorway.

I accept most folk on this site are HUGE yachtsman, So small things like wash wont even faze you lot but coming from a small boater. It is scary and dangerous.

 

[jordanbasset]

Some damning comments from the Judge when sentencing
Trawler captain found guilty after three men drowned on fishing trip
'Her Honour Judge Christine Laing QC told him he had made the deliberate decision to risk collision, resulting in a needless tragedy.
Marr turned his forward facing floodlights on in a bid to put the responsibility for avoiding a collision onto other seafarers.
With the lights on his ability to keep watch was impaired.
The judge told him: “This wasn’t an error of judgment but a deliberate decision to prioritise other activity over keeping a proper watch.”
His catastrophic decision resulted in the deaths of three men, the judge told him,'

 

[madabouttheboat]

Marr turned his forward facing floodlights on in a bid to put the responsibility for avoiding a collision onto other seafarers.
The judge told him: “This wasn’t an error of judgment but a deliberate decision to prioritise other activity over keeping a proper watch.”

If that statement is true, then I need to revise my earlier comment. This skipper did exhibit arrogance.

 

[Aardee]

I accept most folk on this site are HUGE yachtsman, So small things like wash wont even faze you lot but coming from a small boater. It is scary and dangerous.

There are lots on here who do substantial voyages on smaller yachts and we're all bothered by wash to a greater or lesser extent. If your boat is that scary and dangerous out there, is it really the right tool for the job?

 

[MystyBlue2]

There are lots on here who do substantial voyages on smaller yachts and we're all bothered by wash to a greater or lesser extent. If your boat is that scary and dangerous out there, is it really the right tool for the job?

Well i have a 14ft seahog rated at CAT C.

Upto force 6,
Upto 7ft sea,
And use for coastal waters upto (12NM offshore).

I definitely think its more than capable of inshore (3NM-ish fishing), It's the arrogance of others that make it dangerous moreover that capabilities of the smaller boats.

Kayaks and SIB'S are extremely seaworthy, A large vessel ploughing through could easily tip it with wash/wake or kill the occupant by cutting him in half by the skipper being on his fone for instance. It all comes down to common sense and courtesy at sea for everyone. The sea is not just for highly qualified, Larger vessels.

 

[Pye_End]

MAIB: ' its navigation lights did not meet the standards required '

Argus news report: 'The court heard James 2 had the required lights'

Which one is right?

 

[dom]

MAIB: ' its navigation lights did not meet the standards required '

Argus news report: 'The court heard James 2 had the required lights'

Which one is right?

The court's primary interest will have been whether it was visible, not necessarily sporting exactly the lights required by the Colregs.

And the court found the angling vessel to have been visible.

I see little point trying to keep second guessing the court without at least studying the evidence and judgement in detail first.

 

[madabouttheboat]

MAIB: ' its navigation lights did not meet the standards required '

Argus news report: 'The court heard James 2 had the required lights'

Which one is right?

Almost certainly the MAIB

 

[Pye_End]

Well i have a 14ft seahog rated at CAT C.

Upto force 6,
Upto 7ft sea,
And use for coastal waters upto (12NM offshore).

I definitely think its more than capable of inshore (3NM-ish fishing), It's the arrogance of others that make it dangerous moreover that capabilities of the smaller boats.

Kayaks and SIB'S are extremely seaworthy, A large vessel ploughing through could easily tip it with wash/wake or kill the occupant by cutting him in half by the skipper being on his fone for instance. It all comes down to common sense and courtesy at sea for everyone.

Personally, I very rarely see ships with substantial wash in areas where they mix with kayaks, dinghies and suchlike. Much worse from planing motor boats in displacement mode, or tugs in particular.

The first time I had to take late defensive avoiding action was from a fast moving angling boat out of Bradwell. Regularly found their 'watchkeeping' inadequate and aggressive. The ferry out of Ramsgate (at that time) also did as you describe - ie stand on when it should not; I nearly got run over by a French fishing factory ship (not fishhing at the time) off the continental shelf, and also a ship on the lower end of Biscay in the middles of nowhere. However, almost all other shipping has acted correctly, early and professionally over the years.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Personally, I very rarely see ships with substantial wash in areas where they mix with kayaks, dinghies and suchlike. Much worse from planing motor boats in displacement mode, or tugs in particular.

The first time I had to take late defensive avoiding action was from a fast moving angling boat out of Bradwell. Regularly found their 'watchkeeping' inadequate and aggressive. The ferry out of Ramsgate (at that time) also did as you describe - ie stand on when it should not; I nearly got run over by a French fishing factory ship (not fishhing at the time) off the continental shelf, and also a ship on the lower end of Biscay in the middles of nowhere. However, almost all other shipping has acted correctly, early and professionally over the years.

Back to post #66.

It does happen alot, intentionally or accidentally it doesn't matter.

The fact is that it happens more often than it should and it has catastrophic consequences.

 

[Achosenman]

I don't think a commercial operator would be relying on a smart phone for the functions you've mentioned. The issue is private conversations by someone who should be giving full attention to other things. I thought you might have guessed the context.

There are many types of "commercial" operators and not all splash the cash on Gucci kit.

 

[Pye_End]

The court's primary interest will have been whether it was visible, not necessarily sporting exactly the lights required by the Colregs.

And the court found the angling vessel to have been visible.

I see little point trying to keep second guessing the court without at least studying the evidence and judgement in detail first.

MAIB: 'James 2 did not have all the navigation lights required to operate at sea at night and, as a result, it is likely that the motor cruiser was not visible from Vertrouwen’s wheelhouse. '

Quite a critical disagreement, in my mind.