Sad case of deaths at sea.....not keeping watch

[MystyBlue2]

It is really. If you can safely get out of the way and if staying there is more risky then it is always going to be the right thing to do the least risky thing. If you are crossing the road at a zebra crossing, even if its a pelican crossing and the little green man is telling you its your right to cross you're not going to stand there on a point of principle if a truck comes hurtling at you. Same thing really. Ships have great trouble stopping and rapid changes of direction aren't their strong point either, they can't weave in and out between little boats. If you go to the end of the yacht hitting one you'll see the ship has a tug behind it helping it steer.

So what about if i am at anchor, I can see him coming but i give it time incase he is going to steer away, But then he doesn't, Now its a mad panic to try and lift anchor as fast as i can to get out of his way before an imminent collision occurs. On a busy summers day there could be 40-50 larger boats out there, It would be impossible for me to anchor at all if the only option was to "Flee and dodge" all the time.

I think I'm struggling with the judgement of it.

I dare say that it will come with practice and experience. It's gaining the experience in those situations that scares me to death.

 

[Adios]

This is the result of that yacht skippers trial. £103,000 out of pocket: "Mr Wilson was convicted of one count of failing to keep a proper lookout and two counts of impeding the passage of a tanker in a restricted channel" Roland Wilson: Cowes Week yacht crash skipper guilty

 

[Adios]

So what about if i am at anchor, I can see him coming but i give it time incase he is going to steer away, But then he doesn't, Now its a mad panic to try and lift anchor as fast as i can to get out of his way before an imminent collision occurs.

100% you shouldn't wait until there is so little time to get out of the way its only possible with a mad panic. By the sound of it thats exactly why the crew on the James 2 died.

On a busy summers day there could be 40-50 larger boats out there, It would be impossible for me to anchor at all if the only option was to "Flee and dodge" all the time.

Sounds like a bad place to anchor. If there is really no place good to fish which is outside of the area used by ships and you are determined to fish that area its better to drift and always be ready to move position to stay well clear. Probably better not to use even an easily retrieved drogue to slow your drift, sods law would see it getting tangled around the prop as you're trying to retrieve it just as a ship is coming.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

The key to those situations is to anticipate where other boats are going to be passing. Most people anchoring will do that tucked into a bay, or other deserted area. If you're going to fish then you need to just make sure that you're not close to the direct line from A to B. River estuaries and harbours will often have a marked channel and so anchoring outside that is where you need to be. That book I gave you a link to has sketches explaining the buoys, and in the sections with harbour plans will show any shipping lane information that you really must know before going near them.

The people running your next course will help a lot, but no harm in going with prior knowledge.

 

[MystyBlue2]

Brilliant thank you guys so much!

There has been some heated moments in this thread but in all fairness i think alot of folk have had to think about the topics brought up on this thread. Every day is a school day and i for one have learned ALOT.

Thank you all so much for all the pointers

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

ps. I did some simple arithmetic on this Shoreham case.

If you anchored 300 boats like James 2 in a semicircle one mile across outside Shoreham entrance one of them would be hit or swamped by a reasonably fast trawler - a hedgehog on the M25 at Heathrow has a one in 72 chance of getting squished. Not that much difference when compared with a lottery ticket.

Considering Shoreham, and where boats leaving might want to go to, which of those 300 boats would you least like to be sitting on? And look where James 2 was.

 

[Adios]

Some interesting points in this part way through the trial Cowes Week yacht collision tanker 'signalled but failed to turn'

By the sound of it there was signal it was going to turn to starboard but "Under cross examination by prosecutor Charles Row, Mr Wilson was asked: "You had no clear idea how quickly she was going to turn?"

"Mr Row: "You had all the time in the world to avoid this ship." Emphasis on it being his job to avoid it.

Skipper "Mr Wilson replied: "It remained a safe situation up until a couple of minutes before the collision." Clearly it wasn't, he made the wrong decision way before that. The safe thing would have been to give it a very wide berth even if he was severely inconvenienced by it.

In this its more clear how much marine experience was onboard and by the sound of it the Former Royal Naval Commander owner was of the same mind as the skipper. Cowes Week yacht crash was 'rabbits in headlights' moment
They were expecting to pass just in front of it, cocky perhaps, thinking 200m was enough, wind died on them left them 200m short of their hoped for position.

 

[Pye_End]

So in a snap situation, Where you need to think and act quickly, How do you determine who has right of way, Who should move and who shouldn't. If I'm at anchor in the open and a large ship comes really close and I'm not in a shipping lane....what is the best solution? Even with completing my PBL2 and going to move onto Advanced once lockdown is lifted, Some scenarios still confuse me. Obviously i need to make sure my decision is the right one.

Surely the only option isn't to just flee the scene every bloomin time?

There is no right of way as such, but there are obligations. The regulations give guidance on the best way of understading situations and a consistant way of getting out of them in a way which is least likely to cause any issues.

However it is incumbant on all who go to sea to avoid a collision, so being at anchor will not completely exonerate you from also needing to take action.

Ships quite like us also to follow the rules as it makes us predictable, and so makes their job easier. Whatever you do, make it obvious.

On the bridge of large ships, small white boats are often hard to spot. If there is a radar echo, you have a better chance sometimes, but big ships may be dealing with multiple targets in some waters, and might be working hard to avoid a collision with other ships some distance away. Whilst they usually do see us small ones, it is wise to assume they havn't sometimes. Ships may well need 10kn or so to steer, and to put one in hard astern may well lose any kind of control over steerage, so they will tend to want to steer their way through situations rather than by slowing down.

When you see a large expanse of sea, they may well see a fairly narrow channel. However, in genuine open water it is reasonable to expect ships to keep clear if that is their obligation, and they usually do (just don't assume they all do).

Some scenarios are confusing and are discussed on here, sometimes at long length, and usually ends up with more people with more understanding. Just do a search on COLREGS on these fora and you will see multiple confusions!

 

[davidej]

I have read most (not all) of the 27 pages of this and Pye End has (I hope finally) summed it all up with some words of real wisdom.