RYA Training Route Map a bit confusing!

[AlanBoatman]

Hi there. I wonder if anyone can help me here. I am a little confused about the cruising scheme training progression for RYA.

So I understand that – a “Day Skipper” Theory course and then a “Day Skipper” practical course will give you a “Day Skipper” Qualification/Licence that can then be converted to an International Certificate of Competence (ICC).

Then I thought Coastal Skipper was similar. Do the “Coastal Skipper/Yachtmaster” Theory and then a “Coastal Skipper” Practical Course and you are a qualified “Coastal Skipper”.

Then you move on to the “YachtMaster” scheme and depending on your experience you can choose to do a “YachtMaster Coastal” or a “Yachtmaster Offshore” practical exam (these being the first ‘exams’ in the scheme), with a practical preparation course recommended before you do it.

“YachtMaster Ocean” requires doing the “YM Ocean” theory course, the correct experience and a “YM Ocean” qualifying passage. This is then followed by an “YM Ocean” oral examination.

Do I have this right?

Q1 – I hear mention on some school sites of the “Coastal Skipper Exam”. What is this?
The RYA site says about the CS/YM Shorebased course that “this course will take your theory knowledge to the standard required for the Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster Offshore practical exams. So what is a “Coastal Skipper Practical Exam”? Do they mean the “Yachtmaster Coastal” exam?

Another school website site talks of “Coastal Skipper” practical preparing you for the “Coastal Skipper MCA” Exams. What is this?

Q2 – If you can receive a “ICC” with your “Day Skipper” qualification, are ICCs then graduated up to YM Ocean? Some schools talk about working towards your “Certificate of Competence”. Do they mean YM Coastal or YM Offshore? But there is already a “Certificate of Competence” with your RYA Day Skipper qualification!

From a very confused,
Alan

 

[Jeannius]

I think the confusion has come about because the RYA have renamed the old Coastal Skipper qualification and now call it Yachtmaster Coastal. When I did the qualification many years ago I did Coastal Skipper theory and then a Coastal Skipper practical course and then took a Coastal Skipper practical examination after which I became a qualified Coastal Skipper. Now you still do Coastal Skipper Theory and optionally a Coastal Skipper Practical course but you then take a practical examination called Yachtmaster Coastal. There is a lot of old stuff of the internet referring to Coastal Skipper which doesn't help clarify the situation.

An ICC is just an ICC AFAIK and doesn't get upgraded in line with any later qualifications you earn.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Daedelus]

Coastal skipper as such no longer exists, it is now Yachtmaster (coastal).

It is a little confusing as there is a theory course for Yachtmaster (offshore/coastal) and you can do a practical course for Yachtmaster coastal and will get a certificate of attendance (I think). However, if you want a Yachtmaster coastal certificate of competence you then have to pass an exam.

There is no practical course for Yachtmaster offshore (although most schools offer a 5 day familiarisation or revision course to get you to top form by practicing things like MOB or blind nav that you tend not to do often). There is then an exam for Yachtmaster offshore.
In some ways it's like the driving test except the RYA suggest you go out and get competent and then take the test.

There are various pre-conditions such as a minimum 30 days seatime, 2 days as skipper and 800 miles sailed and 12 night hours for coastal, while Yachtmaster offshore requires 50 days seatime, 5 as skipper, 5 passages over 60m including 2 overnight and 2 as skipper and both require VHF certificate and first aid.


Why not purchase Syllabus and logbook G15 from the RYA - don't know the exact price but under a tenner.

 

[Tranona]

Just to clarify the status of the ICC. It is not a qualification in its own right, but an internationally recognised certificate that shows you have met the requirements for a minimum level of competence. This can be achieved either through having a Day Skipper/Yachtmaster Coastal or taking a free standing assessment of competence. Other formal qualifications are also acceptable - see the RYA application form.

If you don't go outside the UK it is of no value, but is useful in some countries, particularly if you want to charter a boat and essential if you want to navigate many of the European inland waterways as you need an endorsement to demonstrate your knowledge of waterways regulations. You get this by taking an on line test once you have an ICC.

 

[mikemanor]

To be awarded the Course Completion Certificate after the RYA Coastal Skipper practical course you have to "successfully" complete the course. It is not an attendance course and the certificate is not always awarded.

As previously mentioned, to get the RYA/MCA Yachtmaster Coastal Certificate of Competence you have to take the practical exam with an independent examiner.

 

[bdh198]

Q1 – I hear mention on some school sites of the “Coastal Skipper Exam”. What is this?
The RYA site says about the CS/YM Shorebased course that “this course will take your theory knowledge to the standard required for the Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster Offshore practical exams. So what is a “Coastal Skipper Practical Exam”? Do they mean the “Yachtmaster Coastal” exam?

Another school website site talks of “Coastal Skipper” practical preparing you for the “Coastal Skipper MCA” Exams. What is this?

Q2 – If you can receive a “ICC” with your “Day Skipper” qualification, are ICCs then graduated up to YM Ocean? Some schools talk about working towards your “Certificate of Competence”. Do they mean YM Coastal or YM Offshore? But there is already a “Certificate of Competence” with your RYA Day Skipper qualification!

The three RYA levels for your purpose are Day Skipper, Yachtmaster Coastal and Yachmaster Offshore. The Yachmaster Coastal used to be called the Coastal Skipper, but this qualification no longer exists. It has simply been renamed the Yachtmaster Coastal. I did my Coastal Skipper in 2009 and at the end of the exam the examiner told me the course name was changing in a few weeks’ time and that I could ask the RYA to hold off issuing me a certificate until the Yachtmaster Coastal came into existance and the certificate would then carry that title.

The confusion on a lot of sailing school websites is they still run a 'Coastal Skipper' course. This is not an official RYA qualification and it only requires 300 miles in the log. The RYA Yachtmaster Coastal (as did the old RYA Coastal Skipper) requires 800 miles in the log. I think sailing schools offer the Coastal Skipper course because it is a step between the Day Skipper and the Yachtmaster Coastal qualifications and allows a way for someone progressing with their training to do a course to help build the miles. Any mention of Coastal Skipper exams would probably be the RYA Yachtmaster Coastal, and the website has simply not put the correct name to the qualification.

If you're looking to do your Yachtmaster Coastal then you will need to do the Yachtmaster theory exam and then a Yachtmaster Coastal practical. There is only one yachtmaster theory exam and once passed you are able to take both the Yachtmaster Coastal and the Yachtmaster Offshore. The practical exam is also very similar, but the Yachtmaster Offshore requires a higher level of knowledge and skill to be demonstrated than the Yachtmaster Coastal.

Don't worry about the 'MCA' reference. So long as you do your yachtmaster course (coastal or offshore) with a recognised RYA trainer and examiner then your Yachtmaster qualification (whether it be Yachtmaster Coastal or Offshore) will also be recognised by the MCA (Maritime & Coastguard Agency – the government department responsible for maritime matters).

The ICC does not distinguish between Day Skipper, Yachtmaster Coastal or Yachtmaster Offshore. It is simply an internationally recognised certificate to show that you have sailing experience and knowledge to at least the level of Day Skipper. I got my ICC after completing my Day Skipper. I am now a Yachtmaster Offshore and still have the same ICC certificate.

 

[SteveSarabande]

Everyone gets confused.
http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/sailcruising/Pages/default.aspx

There is a coastal skipper practical, it comes after day skipper practical, and before yachtmaster coastal.

Comp crew
Day skipper theory
Day skipper practical
Yachtmaster/coastal theory
Coastal skipper practical
Yachtmaster prep week
Yachtmaster Exam, either coastal or offshore depending on your mileage

 

[BlueSkyNick]

None of the Theory courses are mandatory before their Practical equivalents - although they should be IMO.

 

[Melody]

Everyone gets confused.
http://www.rya.org.uk/coursestraining/courses/sailcruising/Pages/default.aspx

There is a coastal skipper practical, it comes after day skipper practical, and before yachtmaster coastal.

Comp crew
Day skipper theory
Day skipper practical
Yachtmaster/coastal theory
Coastal skipper practical
Yachtmaster prep week
Yachtmaster Exam, either coastal or offshore depending on your mileage

Yes, this is correct. The practical is still referred to as 'Coastal Skipper' and, if you successfully complete it you will be awarded with a Coastal Skipper photo-ID licence. Having completed this course reduces the mileage requirement before you can sit the YM Coastal.

Although the theory courses aren't compulsory you will be expected to be able to demonstrate knowledge of the theory and could fail if you don't know it.

In my experience, it's only those who want to work commercially who are interested in YM Coastal. Recreational sailors tend to do Day Skipper, Coastal Skipper, then sail until they have sufficient experience to take YM Offshore.

By the way, it's not a good idea to go straight from a Day Skipper course to a Coastal Skipper course. Get a couple of week's experience skippering in between and you're far more likely to pass.

 

[AlanBoatman]

Dear All - Thank you so much for all your replies. It is crystal clear now! I am planning my training and experience route map for the next couple of years, so your advice is really great!

Just as a very quick extra question. When one successfully participates in a practical course e.g. Day Skipper - one receives a photo-ID licence. Should you also receive a paper certificate to go into your "Syllabus and Logbook" ?

Thanks again everyone!!!
Alan

 

[Skylark]

Since you asked and so far no one else has responded.


YM Ocean requires the candidate to already have YM Offshore. In addition to this the candidate must have done a qualifying passage, must take a written examination and must pass an oral exam. Already having the YM Ocean shorebased course completion certificate exempts the written exam part. Requirements to meet the qualifying passage are shown in the sailing logbook and the oral is likely to be an hour chat while sitting in a comfy chair drinking tea having a pleasant discussion about your qualifying passage and pretty much anything else remotely boaty with a very pleasant, wise and experienced salty sea dog. Plus evidence of current 1st aid and so on.

 

[Nico]

The RYA have got themselves in a bit of a mess over this. I understand that they want to use the "yachtmaster" trademark as widely as possible, after they had a bit of legal argy bargy over the use of the term a few years back, but they need to simplify the whole "coastal" course completion vs. exam confusion, and the fact that there is no such thing as a (RYA) yachtmaster offshore course is also confusing as so many people think they've done one.

 

[roblpm]

I am off to do coastal skipper in a few months so i hope it exists!!

I think its pretty simple:

Completion certificates which you are awarded for completing all the parts of the relevant syllabus at the required level, signed off by instructor. Sufficient for chartering boats :

Comp Crew
Day Skipper
Coastal Skipper

Exams, signed off by an examiner. Usually taken for professional purposes:

YM Coastal
YM Offshore
YM Ocean

Ok its a bit confusing as i think the syllabus for coastal skipper and ym coastal are the same. But its not that complicated? Or am i missing something??!!

 

[bdh198]

When I did the Day Skipper (back in 2006, so it's probably still the same today) you get a paper certificate for both the theory and the practical courses. You should be given them by the sailing school as soon as you pass. Both these can then go in your log book. I don't remember getting a photo ID licence, but if you apply for your ICC then that is a photo ID certificate.

 

[alant]

Since you asked and so far no one else has responded.


YM Ocean requires the candidate to already have YM Offshore. In addition to this the candidate must have done a qualifying passage, must take a written examination and must pass an oral exam. Already having the YM Ocean shorebased course completion certificate exempts the written exam part. Requirements to meet the qualifying passage are shown in the sailing logbook and the oral is likely to be an hour chat while sitting in a comfy chair drinking tea having a pleasant discussion about your qualifying passage and pretty much anything else remotely boaty with a very pleasant, wise and experienced salty sea dog. Plus evidence of current 1st aid and so on.

To do the Ocean 'Theory Course', you have to hold a YM Offshore Theory cert,
You do not need to have passed the practical.
If you don't have the Ocean Theory, the examiner will set his own theory exam, as well as the usual interrogation.

 

[vjmehra]

When I did the Day Skipper (back in 2006, so it's probably still the same today) you get a paper certificate for both the theory and the practical courses. You should be given them by the sailing school as soon as you pass. Both these can then go in your log book. I don't remember getting a photo ID licence, but if you apply for your ICC then that is a photo ID certificate.

Some schools give paper certs, some photo ID's. I'm not really sure why!

 

[SteveSarabande]

To do the Ocean 'Theory Course', you have to hold a YM Offshore Theory cert,
You do not need to have passed the practical.
If you don't have the Ocean Theory, the examiner will set his own theory exam, as well as the usual interrogation.

There is no such thing as YM Offshore Theory.
I think you mean "RYA Ocean Theory" a 5 day classroom course which ends with a theory exam. This saves you doing another exam as part of the oral assesment when you go for Yachtmaster Ocean.

 

[alant]

There is no such thing as YM Offshore Theory.
I think you mean "RYA Ocean Theory" a 5 day classroom course which ends with a theory exam. This saves you doing another exam as part of the oral assesment when you go for Yachtmaster Ocean.

Which is what I posted, if you bothered to read!

 

[capnsensible]

Some schools give paper certs, some photo ID's. I'm not really sure why!

In April 2013, photographs on an ID style card replaced course completion certificates for Day Skipper and Coastal Skipper courses. This is used to prevent fraudulent issue of the old style paper certs.

 

[capnsensible]

There is no such thing as YM Offshore Theory.

The correct title is 'Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster Offshore Shorebased.'