What does "Yachtmaster" mean at the moment?

[dunedin]

IME, charter companies are pretty relaxed about renting boats - if they were precious about them, they’d be in the wrong business. …..

That depends a lot on location and company.
Some countries are very rigid on the paperwork aspects (not necessarily any real skills) - so having an in date ICC may be required, and 50 years of boat ownership doesn’t count. Hence why I got my ICC.

Even in the UK, I tried to hire a Laser at a sailing centre to play with whilst son racing. In spite of being able to prove I had owned and raced a Laser since 1978, I was unable to hire one as I didn’t have an RYA dinghy certificate (and don’t blame the RYA, this was not their rule but the sailing centre’s).

 

[Mark-1]

Ah, now a scheme set up to encourage you to lie/exaggerate doesn't seem like a very smart scheme! Personally I'm astonished that its still just a little log book you can fill in yourself with a line per day - potentially a few days before you actually sit the exam. In almost any other professional training context, you would be expected to build a portfolio of evidence (passage plan, weather forecast, stuff that went wrong, receipts/invoices, photographs or GPS tracks, and probably a section on reflective learning).

Not sure it matters. You have to pass the Exam, so if you're good enough you're good enough, and significant fibs will be obvious.

...and yeah, we're now talking the period back to 2015 so it's easy to coroborate: "Mr Smith, I see you had a cracking sail in June 2016. Can you show me the Facebook post with the images.".

 

[Mark-1]

Even in the UK, I tried to hire a Laser at a sailing centre to play with whilst son racing. In spite of being able to prove I had owned and raced a Laser since 1978, I was unable to hire one as I didn’t have an RYA dinghy certificate (and don’t blame the RYA, this was not their rule but the sailing centre’s).

Our Dinghy Club says "Dinghy Level 2 or Equivalent Experience" which works fine.

 

[justanothersailboat]

This may not be the fault of the sailing centre - it can be pushed on them by insurers. I have RYA Dinghy level 2 for exactly this reason. (and it was a fun weekend)

 

[Mark-1]

This may not be the fault of the sailing centre - it can be pushed on them by insurers. I have RYA Dinghy level 2 for exactly this reason. (and it was a fun weekend)

Assuming the rule is 'Level 2 or above' then you can get "RYA Dinghy Seamanship Skills" on assessment only which takes a couple of hours instead of two days.

Or even better the Sailing Centre could get better insurance.

 

[ylop]

IME, charter companies are pretty relaxed about renting boats - if they were precious about them, they’d be in the wrong business.

It has definitely got tighter over time, I assume its not that they are precious but that their insurers are demanding! I have heard it claimed that even when a charter firm publish a requirement, some will have flexibility at least for returning customers. But you are looking to do an ICC - presumably to satisfy some charter operator (or their government)?

I reckon it's also a myth that people spend hundreds on boats they can’t handle; so customers largely self‑select.

Probably true with sailing boats, but I think you are underestimating the stupidity of people and that having enough money to charter doesn't stop you being clueless. I'm sure the flotilla holiday has other attractions, but one of the ways it's sold is help around if you get in trouble, help docking etc.

Certainly, every conversation I’ve had has felt more like the firm trying to persuade me to take their boat, rather than me needing to prove I was "good" enough.

Some Scottish charter operators ask for (not necessarily insist on) Coastal Skipper (I believe course completion not YM(C)).

 

[ylop]

Or even better the Sailing Centre could get better insurance.

Probably not worth it for the once-a-year you turn someone away who would otherwise be qualified.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

RYA Elementary, from about 1978. When I sail my Wayfarer, I reef by taking a tuck in the mainsail, before rolling. My son when he was young had never been shown this on the dinghies he learned on.

Times change, thank goodness, or we would still be hunter gatherers. I think the RYA sail training scheme has done a good job of keeping up with change.

 

[Laser310]

Even in the UK, I tried to hire a Laser at a sailing centre to play with whilst son racing. In spite of being able to prove I had owned and raced a Laser since 1978, I was unable to hire one as I didn’t have an RYA dinghy certificate (and don’t blame the RYA, this was not their rule but the sailing centre’s).

that's a bit over the top

did you have your ICC at that time?

 

[ylop]

RYA Elementary, from about 1978. When I sail my Wayfarer, I reef by taking a tuck in the mainsail, before rolling. My son when he was young had never been shown this on the dinghies he learned on.

I am not quite as vintage as you but also have always tucked the mainsail when reefing a traditionally rigged dinghy - does he not get a droopy boom? Or did he just do all the training on boats where it's reefed round the mast?

Times change, thank goodness, or we would still be hunter gatherers. I think the RYA sail training scheme has done a good job of keeping up with change.

I'd agree with that an YM means you have been independently examined, not just turned up for the course and followed the instructions 30 minutes later.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

@ylop Indeed, Toppers, Lasers and one of the modern two up, trapeze dinghies. He did learn from me, why the tuck is needed and we have sailed the Wayfarer in strong winds, with the reef.

 

[Mark-1]

When I sail my Wayfarer, I reef by taking a tuck in the mainsail, before rolling. My son when he was young had never been shown this on the dinghies he learned on.

In the two RTC's I'm familiar with*, the boats that would be reefed as part of course content are specced with slab reefing. All the other boats can be reefed around the mast. So, I reckon wrapping round a boom isn’t something youngsters would normally do today. I can’t remember the last time I reefed with turns around a boom on a dinghy, and I don’t recall ever picking up a tuck - so count me among the victims of lost skills.

(I have no recollection myself but I've read that back in the days of cotton sails people would wrap sail round the boom just to use up the stretch.)

* Yes, I don't want to but volunteers are thin on the ground so if parents don't volunteer nothing happens.

 

[dunedin]

that's a bit over the top

did you have your ICC at that time?

Not carrying with me

Their argument was “rules is rules” - and presumably linked to H&S Risk Assessments and Insurance requirements.

 

[ylop]

Kids these days - don't know they are born! So they also haven't tried to roll the sail bag into the sail to give you somewhere to secure the kicker?

 

[Mark-1]

Kids these days - don't know they are born! So they also haven't tried to roll the sail bag into the sail to give you somewhere to secure the kicker?

The thing I'm most jealous of is they can deliberately t-bone each other and other objects at full chat.

If I'd done that in my first three boats I'd have been left with matchsticks plus a massive bollocking.

...and I'd never worked out the sail bag trick. I just assumed you needed a sort of old fashioned brass pair of pincers which I never would have had.

 

[ylop]

The thing I'm most jealous of is they can deliberately t-bone each other and other objects at full chat.

If I'd done that in my first three boats I'd have been left with matchsticks plus a massive bollocking.

I used to spend winter sailing club evenings repairing the damage we did in the season.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Assuming that's aimed at me:

1) It's a very expensive and time consuming way to get an ICC.
2) SWMBO and I have been through Corrywrecken 3 times and the Cuan sound 2 (or maybe 4 ) times and anchored in the anchorage that (IIRC) is sort of within it. It really wasn't that hard, pilotage rather than navigation. And yeah, numerous other places around the British Isles as well without any quals except a VHF license (...and the Baltic, and the Med.).

...but I was asking what people think it currently is, not if it was useful or not. Some people need it and some people don't need it but still find it useful, I have no quarrel with that.

Sorry, wasn't aimed at you specifically, I meant "you" in a much more general sense.

 

[ImpImp]

Not sure how it applies but in the 90’s I was on HMS Chatham somewhere in the med and we were RASing. The CO knew I was a keen sailor and a YMI and YM examiner from my joining interview. When I wondered out onto the bridge wing he turned round and said ‘you know what you’re doing. You can drive’ and walked off. I wasn’t expecting to take the con of 5000 tonnes steaming along at 10 knots a few metres from a tanker while we sucked fuel from it but it’s great fun and I fortunately for my career and his no dramas or collision. The breakaway was fun as I’d got a few thousand shaft hp to play with. Just mind you don’t exceed the torque limits on the shafts… or the MCR will take you out of bridge control and you owe them champagne…

Career? you were a rankless non-combatant. (not that that's a bad thing in itself)

 

[davidej]

Th

Master is gender neutral in the context of skill. For example:-

The feminists have driven such words as manageress, actress etc out of the vocabulary so yacht mistress would not be tolerated

 

[greeny]

Th

The feminists have driven such words as manageress, actress etc out of the vocabulary so yacht mistress would not be tolerated

Not according to Piers Morgan. Read his book, "Woke Is Dead". He puts in print what a lot of us have been thinking for a long time.