RYA Subscription Cancelled

[rogerthebodger]

There are 3 RYA Recognised Training Centres in South Africa.

Yes I know but none of them are recognized by the South African maritime safety authority so I had to redo the exams to be allowed to skipper my yacht in South Africa.

They are all located in the Western Cape none close to where I live of sail

 

[Boathook]

If I join the RYA, can I use the special "I've got right of way over everyone 'cos I'm RACING" rule? Seems to be invoked quite often on race days around the Solent.

I have found that the racers who complain seem to be last in the fleet. I do what I can to avoid them but tacking a cruising cat isn't an instant affair.

 

[capnsensible]

Yes I know but none of them are recognized by the South African maritime safety authority so I had to redo the exams to be allowed to skipper my yacht in South Africa.

They are all located in the Western Cape none close to where I live of sail

Seems a bit iodd of them. A student (theory) of mine took his Offshore exam, followed by an ocean passage and then his Ocean exam at a Cape Town school. I wonder why these schools operate if you can't use the licence there?

There is a school advertising as being in Durban. Offshore Sailing Academy.

 

[ylop]

Because as with other sports it’s a privilege to be part of setting the international rules for the enjoyment of people the world over rather than being an activity only performed for profit?

Is world sailing run for profit?

The IFAB don’t tell people that if they want to play football without paying subs to a national body they’ll have to make up their own rules.

But if you want to play in an FA or SFA league / cup (even at local kids level) you have to do exactly that! There’s nothing I could see in world sailing RRS that says you have to be a paying member (but I could only actually find a rule that said the ORGANISER not every sailor had to be a member. As far as I am aware there's no RYA rule that members of affiliated clubs have to be paying "subs" either they could fund their £70 or whatever collective fee from bar profits, commercial sponsorship, etc?

Do you seriously believe people shouldn’t use the RRS without being affiliated to the RYA?

Clearly not. The RYA is only one of many NGBs affiliated with World Sailing. I don't think world sailing object to people running sailing races outside their auspices with very similar rules to them but it would be bonkers to suggest that anyone could use all of the RRS who wasn't affiliated - it includes sanctions and escalations for investigating breaches etc.

 

[KevinV]

I wonder why these schools operate if you can't use the licence there?

Nice place to do zero to hero perhaps?

 

[rogerthebodger]

Seems a bit iodd of them. A student (theory) of mine took his Offshore exam, followed by an ocean passage and then his Ocean exam at a Cape Town school. I wonder why these schools operate if you can't use the licence there?

There is a school advertising as being in Durban. Offshore Sailing Academy.

Yes Offshore Sailing Academy is n Durban but don't do RYA as the RYA require entry into a number of ports which is not easy from Durban as the closest port to Durban is Richards Bay which id 90 nm away so not a day sail

I sat my practical exam with then some time ago as I could then use their boat and those on the course could crew for each other under the instruction of the examiner. This ment I did not have to arrange crew to use my boat

Tis is the cause I joined and I know Werner quite well

Two of the current Cape town sailing schools used to be in Durban until SAS started to give then a hard time and place restriction on then so they moved to Cape Town and concentrated on RYA courses

A good friend of mine used to be an instructor but left when they moved to the Cape and now lives in Richards Bay with his Girl friend

Coastal Skipper Course |

I had taken the theory exams before I did my practical

It changed hands at the time I did my exam but don't know if still operating as it was.

I think one of their instructor took it over and run it from his home and a local yacht club

To be frank sailing is slowly dying in Durban due to the meddling of the authorities and the likes of out equivalent of the RYA trying to control and make money from a pastimes /hobby. All members of affiliated clubs MUST pay SAS even if they don;t sail and only drink beer in the club house

I have owned a boat in Durban since 1998 when I joined RNYC

I did have a boat on the midland canals when I lived in the UK around Birmingham and Northampton

Left UK 1982

 

[rogerthebodger]

Nice place to do zero to hero perhaps?

Also very cost effective when earning Pounds or Euro and its sunny att year with good sailing weather

The wine and beaches are very nice and the water is warm especially on the east coast where I sail

 

[rogerthebodger]

Ocean exam at a Cape Town school. I wonder why these schools operate if you can't use the licence there?

They cater mainly for sailors from UK EU in taking the RYA exams taken locally under RYA supervision

They do cater for the local exams which are take place at and by the local equivalent to the RYA not by or at the sailing school

 

[john_morris_uk]

If I could harvest all the chips on the shoulders of some of the anti-RYA people on here I could build myself a nice wooden boat.

 

[rogerthebodger]

If I could harvest all the chips on the shoulders of some of the anti-RYA people on here I could build myself a nice wooden boat.

You would never get a boat of wood chaps past our maritime safety authority anyway so no point

My boat failed as I could not buy a battery for my EPIRB from the manufacturer as the manufacturer would not supply

Red tape in the extreme

 

[dunedin]

You would never get a boat of wood chaps past our maritime safety authority anyway so no point

My boat failed as I could not buy a battery for my EPIRB from the manufacturer as the manufacturer would not supply

Red tape in the extreme

Perhaps you need a national authority like RYA to resist the imposition of excessive bureaucracy and rules on cruising yachts ……….

 

[rotrax]

If I could harvest all the chips on the shoulders of some of the anti-RYA people on here I could build myself a nice wooden boat.

I'm not anti RYA, it is clear that they do a good job in affiliating clubs, making training accessible and making the interface between the various levels of sailing as a sport.

Now my training days are, over they have little relevance to me. The CA and my clubs-most with RYA affiliation-have that relevance. I found being a direct member poor value for money as a cruiser.

 

[laika]

If you want to run an event set your own rules.
[…]
Why would world sailing not want to own their IP (the wording of the rules) that they have spent decades refining?

Do you seriously believe people shouldn’t use the RRS without being affiliated to the RYA?

Clearly not. The RYA is only one of many NGBs affiliated with World Sailing.

"clearly" not? You'll see how that's the obvious interpretation of your initial statement? People shouldn't steal the intellectual property of World Sailing by using the RRS without being affiliated, they should instead make up their own rules? Is the only reason my interpretation is clearly wrong my use of "RYA" rather than "National Governing Body" and my assumption that the defined appeal procedure not being available to non-affiliated race organisers was obvious?

This isn't an anti-RYA post: I've never heard them suggest that non-affiliated groups having any kind of race mustn't use the rrs. It just seemed an odd statement from ylop

 

[john_morris_uk]

I'm not anti RYA, it is clear that they do a good job in affiliating clubs, making training accessible and making the interface between the various levels of sailing as a sport.

Now my training days are, over they have little relevance to me. The CA and my clubs-most with RYA affiliation-have that relevance. I found being a direct member poor value for money as a cruiser.

I said ‘some’ contributors on here not all…

 

[Bristolfashion]

I know it was posted in jest, but with so many multi-prejudiced old grumpies on this forum it probably doesn’t help as just helps fuel their false prejudices.

As clarified earlier, virtually all racing on the Solent is organised by the various sailing/yachting clubs (or combined ones), not the RYA, and no personal membership of RYA needed to enter. And the number of actual calls of “keep out of my way I am racing” are probably infitessimally small, and much fewer than close calls with other forms of waterborne idiots - whether in sailing yachts, power boats or PWC.

Yep, posted in jest - the smilie was a subtle clue. It's happened to us once - my reply was the generally accepted response, the second word being "off"!

 

[Bristolfashion]

I'm not anti RYA, it is clear that they do a good job in affiliating clubs, making training accessible and making the interface between the various levels of sailing as a sport.

Now my training days are, over they have little relevance to me. The CA and my clubs-most with RYA affiliation-have that relevance. I found being a direct member poor value for money as a cruiser.

Yes - I'm not anti RYA - originally it was more a question of "who?". I can honestly say that, for the first part of my time sailing, I wasn't even aware that you could join as an individual - and I'd taken Day Skipper by then. Now it's more a matter of "what" (do they do) and "why" should they get some of my "memberships & donations" money.

 

[rotrax]

Yes - I'm not anti RYA - originally it was more a question of "who?". I can honestly say that, for the first part of my time sailing, I wasn't even aware that you could join as an individual - and I'd taken Day Skipper by then. Now it's more a matter of "what" (do they do) and "why" should they get some of my "memberships & donations" money.

In our early sailing days-First Mate and I had owned various inland waterway boats previously-the RYA organised several excellenr 'Musters' at Cowes. The cost was modest and allowed access to skills and safety training as well as talks by experts. We enjoyed them and considered them good value.

Our first Channel crossing was organised by the RYA. It boosted our confidence and stretched our skills. Again, the now defunct Cruising department had organised it.

When the RYA Cruising department faded away, so did our interest.

 

[ylop]

Laika - you don’t seem to understand the difference between World Sailing, the national governing bodies affiliated to World Sailing (of which the RYA is just one), and clubs affiliated to the RYA who run events following World Sailing rules. I don’t know how to have a sensible discussion with you when you jumble these issues up.

The RRS are World Sailing’s IP. They are huge, very detailed and extensive. Anyone who was genuinely debating who should be allowed to use the RRS would have familiarised themselves with the document, and then would have realised that the rules skippers follow during a race are in fact only a small part of the RRS. I gave one example of a part of the RRS which clearly have nothing to do with people outside the World Sailing infrastructure but if you go and read the document you’ll find multiple sections which have nothing directly to do with what the skipper of a boat trying to sail faster than the skipper of another boat.

Go and look at any other sport’s equivalent* and you will find they mostly have similar huge long sections which are not about the field of play but the governance / organisational infrastructure and are bespoke to the sport itself. It will not be at all unusual to find that, at least at certain levels of the sport, that competitors require to be affiliated to either a club or national governing body in other to compete. Cycling certainly requires a “race license” (essentially membership of British Cycling), U.K. Athletics requires certain participants to be affiliated to a club or pay an extra fee (that’s £2 per event for anyone running a cross country race).

Essential they “own” the definition of the sport; you can invent your own very similar rules and then you will own that. I guess you could look at Rugby Union and Rugby League to see what happens when you do that. In cycling there are events run under “TLI” rules which seem to be outside the UCI/BC governance and follow their own format. They still require affiliation/license of competitors!

An event organiser doesn’t have to follow governing body rules but it makes life a damn site easier with insurers, funding bodies, landowners (presumably harbour authorities), and clubs themselves if you can simply say “yes we follow the rules set by the NGB (or the WGB)”. If one of those rules is organisers must be affiliated - that’s the GBs decision to make (and very common). If it’s that competitors or their clubs must be affiliated that’s also their decision to make and far from uncommon. I don’t understand your objection to that.

* they may separate the rules on the field of play into a separate document but they will all have rules on who can organise, officiate, settle disputes, etc. If they are a sport which is at Olympic level the rules of the sport covering all the rest of the stuff probably far outweigh the actual rules from the start to the finish line or whistle to whistle.

 

[KevinV]

I'm a member because for the RYA to have any influence over anything at all it needs lots of members - otherwise it's claim to be the representative body is a nonsense and they'd be laughed out of every discussion/meeting/ enquiry. If not the RYA, then who? No other body is anywhere near big enough to influence goverment policy, so better to make the RYA as big as possible.

The cost is peanuts in the grand scheme of boats/ good whisky/ bad women and of course they won't get everything right for everybody - that's simply not possible.

 

[Bristolfashion]

The cost is peanuts in the grand scheme of boats/ good whisky/ bad women and of course they won't get everything right for everybody - that's simply not possible.

Lucky I only do 2 out of 3 of those - otherwise there'd be no money left for anything else!