RYA Subscription Cancelled

[B27]

Well, a very nice person from the CA took the time to explain the benefits of membership to me at the Southampton boat show. We've met & socialised with members all around the UK & Ireland, used the discounts, attended the meetings (whether in person or by zoom), visited HO and used the info on "Captains Mate" and elsewhere. Whilst not a statutory body, they certainly campaign pretty hard - better an effective members group than an ineffective statutory body?

I'm a "joiner", if the RYA had made themselves known to me in any way and sold the benefits, maybe I'd have joined. I've done about 8 of their courses, they've had plenty of opportunities and not even a leaflet.

As an Aussie - and holder of an Australian boat licence - I'm therefore not against a very basic form of licence & registration. Should you really be able to skipper a large boat with no idea of the Colregs etc?

As a 'joiner' are you a member of any sailing clubs, boat owners' groups etc?

 

[rotrax]

Suggest that you look up the "Jester Sailing Challenge".

No sign of anarchy and no rules since they started a number of years ago. Just let them know you are interested in taking part and turn up for the start. Skipper has sole responsibility for all safety and seamanship decisions.

My posts have been about regulated National and International competition.

The jester Challenge is outside those parameters.

Now that is cleared up, perhaps rogerthebodger might take part.

Sounds right up his street........................................

 

[srm]

All organisations have their good and not so good aspects.

CA helps a lot of people with info etc. but struck me that the membership was very much southern England where the winter activities were focussed. I was their HLR for around 20 years in Orkney, but did not see much point in joining; but then I am happy discovering places for myself with a set of charts, tide atlas and perhaps a pilot book.

I was also OCC port officer in Orkney for about ten years until I left. When I left the islands I found another volunteer to take over the positions. I got two or three emails from different members of the OCC thanking me for my help. Total silence from the CA, not even an acknowledgement from the paid secretariat after I had informed them of the changes to HLR.

 

[Bristolfashion]

As a 'joiner' are you a member of any sailing clubs, boat owners' groups etc?

CA, Sadler Assn & donate to RNLI & CRT - we're on an extended (4 year) cruise at the moment after returning from Oz, so will join a sailing club where we settle (no idea where that will be at the moment).

But we are also members of / donate to a wide range of other things as well.

I'm pretty easy to sign up to any cause I support. The RYA have just never tried and I've never had a compelling reason to go looking - I guess we all have finite amounts to spend on memberships & donations.

 

[Bristolfashion]

People have been boating in the UK for years with no licence and sometimes with little knowledge. I get the impression that our boating 'accident' rate is no worse than countries that require a licence and training and long may it continue. There is I believe an upper limit to size without a licence, but that doesn't affect many if any UK boaters on here apart from commercial operations. Most people new to boating do training as they don't want to create problems, put other family members and friends off their new interest.
I have bits of paper for the theory side but I learnt from my dad and I believe that he learnt from his dad, my grandfather for the practical side.

I don't really feel strongly either way - I'm just saying that I wouldn't join an organisation specifically because they were campaigning against licences - a subject I'm neutral on.

I guess that learning good habits from others is fine - learning bad habits or not learning is not so good.

 

[Humblebee]

Slight thread drift to clarify the meaning of QUANGO - Quasi Autonomous Non Governmental Organisation.

 

[ylop]

Quasi Autonomous National Government Authority, I believe. I rest my case, supported by the views expressed in a number of posts,

Not quite! It’s a Quasi Autonomous Non-Governmental Organisation so a Quasi Government QANGO is a contradiction in terms.

 

[B27]

quango or qango?

These things matter in scrabble.

 

[ylop]

Some people seem to be under the impression that RYA membership was either compulsory or the defacto position of U.K. sailors, and therefore that their protest is rebellious. I’m pretty sure that the majority of sailers in the U.K. are not RYA members, and probably never have been. I think I’ve been a member for about 6% of my sailing “life”. Perhaps 20% of that I was a member of an affiliated club. I suspect at some point in the future I’ll join again. I’ll be honest it doesn’t feel like a particularly inclusive organisation - there will be lots of people just like me there but that’s not that appealing. In reality though I’m likely to join the day I “need” to. No need for me to virtue signal - I’ve never been a member of the RNLI and am very unlikely to “join”.

Others seem confused that because most racing in the U.K. is run under the auspices of the RYA that the RYA has some belief that ALL racing must fall into its management and everyone who races must be a member. That’s neither the RYA position nor the reality. Event organisers decide the rules for their events. They will make those decisions for various reasons but one of them will be what their organisers’ liability insurance requires - I’ve never organised a sailing race but I have organised other sporting events. It’s much easier to get insurance if you can say it follows national governing body rules. In reality most clubs probably actually fall under a national RYA policy which saves them money and hassle. My experience in other sports is that those policies are cheaper when everyone competing is a member (I don’t know if that is because it’s perceived that members are less likely to be harmed or less likely to sue), and therefore it’s common for competitive sport rules to require you to be a member of the NGB. In fact the RYA (or it’s insurers) don’t even seem to go that far, they say you need to be a member of the RYA or an RYA affiliated club.

 

[ylop]

quango or qango?

These things matter in scrabble.

I assumed as an acronym it would be “illegal” in scrabble but both OED and Cambridge dictionary spell it quango in lowercase despite its etymology.

 

[st599]

Some people seem to be under the impression that RYA membership was either compulsory or the defacto position of U.K. sailors, and therefore that their protest is rebellious. I’m pretty sure that the majority of sailers in the U.K. are not RYA members, and probably never have been. I think I’ve been a member for about 6% of my sailing “life”. Perhaps 20% of that I was a member of an affiliated club. I suspect at some point in the future I’ll join again. I’ll be honest it doesn’t feel like a particularly inclusive organisation - there will be lots of people just like me there but that’s not that appealing. In reality though I’m likely to join the day I “need” to. No need for me to virtue signal - I’ve never been a member of the RNLI and am very unlikely to “join”.

Others seem confused that because most racing in the U.K. is run under the auspices of the RYA that the RYA has some belief that ALL racing must fall into its management and everyone who races must be a member. That’s neither the RYA position nor the reality. Event organisers decide the rules for their events. They will make those decisions for various reasons but one of them will be what their organisers’ liability insurance requires - I’ve never organised a sailing race but I have organised other sporting events. It’s much easier to get insurance if you can say it follows national governing body rules. In reality most clubs probably actually fall under a national RYA policy which saves them money and hassle. My experience in other sports is that those policies are cheaper when everyone competing is a member (I don’t know if that is because it’s perceived that members are less likely to be harmed or less likely to sue), and therefore it’s common for competitive sport rules to require you to be a member of the NGB. In fact the RYA (or it’s insurers) don’t even seem to go that far, they say you need to be a member of the RYA or an RYA affiliated club.

The racing rules of sailing only allow organisations affiliated to the national governing body to run races using those rules.

Races shall be organized by an organizing authority, which shall be
World Sailing;
a member national authority of World Sailing;
an affiliated club;
an affiliated organization other than a club and, if so prescribed by the national authority, with the approval of the national authority or in conjunction with an affiliated club;
an unaffiliated class association, either with the approval of the national authority or in conjunction with an affiliated club;
two or more of the above organizations;
an unaffiliated body in conjunction with an affiliated club where the body is owned and controlled by the club. The national authority of the club may prescribe that its approval is required for such an event; or
if approved by World Sailing and the national authority of the club, an unaffiliated body in conjunction with an affiliated club where the body is not owned and controlled by the club.

 

[ylop]

The racing rules of sailing only allow organisations affiliated to the national governing body to run races using those rules.

I’m not sure what your complaint is there? Why would you want to use someone else’s rules? If you want to run an event set your own rules. E.g. I don’t think the Island 3 Peaks Race runs under World Sailing Rules.

Why would world sailing not want to own their IP (the wording of the rules) that they have spent decades refining?

 

[Bristolfashion]

If I join the RYA, can I use the special "I've got right of way over everyone 'cos I'm RACING" rule? Seems to be invoked quite often on race days around the Solent.

 

[laika]

If you want to run an event set your own rules.
[…]

Why would world sailing not want to own their IP (the wording of the rules) that they have spent decades refining?

Because as with other sports it’s a privilege to be part of setting the international rules for the enjoyment of people the world over rather than being an activity only performed for profit? The IFAB don’t tell people that if they want to play football without paying subs to a national body they’ll have to make up their own rules.

I’m not a racer and probably *would* make up my own rules but…

Do you seriously believe people shouldn’t use the RRS without being affiliated to the RYA?

(One sentence replies preferred over a novella)

 

[Pye_End]

In general, a representative and developmental body paid for by 'us boaters' is a good thing. I am not sure what better ways of funding such a body is. Is there a need for one? - I would say so.

This idea that they are just there for racing is bizarre.

If they drop clangers, or misrepresent, or miss out on the odd current issue - well everybody and every body does that once in a while.

The good thing is, everybody has a choice.

 

[B27]

It's not really an issue, but suppose large numbers of clubs started not affiliating, then you might find different sets of rules evolving?
Like soccer, rugby, american football, australian rules football.

In Sydney, the skiffs used to race under colregs basically, because they were not affiliated to the racing clubs.

I have raced at a non-affiliated club and the rules were known to be different but didn't seem to be written down as such.
International Canoes used to race under different rules, the clue being, it's a canoe, you're allowed to paddle.

 

[dunedin]

If I join the RYA, can I use the special "I've got right of way over everyone 'cos I'm RACING" rule? Seems to be invoked quite often on race days around the Solent.

I know it was posted in jest, but with so many multi-prejudiced old grumpies on this forum it probably doesn’t help as just helps fuel their false prejudices.

As clarified earlier, virtually all racing on the Solent is organised by the various sailing/yachting clubs (or combined ones), not the RYA, and no personal membership of RYA needed to enter. And the number of actual calls of “keep out of my way I am racing” are probably infitessimally small, and much fewer than close calls with other forms of waterborne idiots - whether in sailing yachts, power boats or PWC.

 

[awol]

I know it was posted in jest, but with so many multi-prejudiced old grumpies on this forum it probably doesn’t help as just helps fuel their false prejudices.

As clarified earlier, virtually all racing on the Solent is organised by the various sailing/yachting clubs (or combined ones), not the RYA, and no personal membership of RYA needed to enter. And the number of actual calls of “keep out of my way I am racing” are probably infitessimally small, and much fewer than close calls with other forms of waterborne idiots - whether in sailing yachts, power boats or PWC.

...... and don't forget ferries!

 

[rogerthebodger]

My posts have been about regulated National and International competition.

The jester Challenge is outside those parameters.

Now that is cleared up, perhaps rogerthebodger might take part.

Sounds right up his street........................................

A friend of mine has been trying to arrange a madagascar challenge.

A cruise from the east coast of South Africa to Madagascar with no interest from our equivalent to the RYA

 

[capnsensible]

There are 3 RYA Recognised Training Centres in South Africa.