RYA Subscription Cancelled

[RobbieW]

Do RYA affiliated clubs pay any subscribution to the RYA or is a requirement for members of an RYA affiliated club must be a member of the RYA

If any Sailor/Boat owner wishes to enter an event run under the world sailing rules is there a requirement for the skipper/owner / crew to be a paid u member of the RYA

The club pays a fee based on its subscription income, that maxes out at just under £4000.

The RYA are the agents for RRS in the UK. To enter a race run under RRS (pretty much all are) in the UK the entrant must be a personal member or belong to a club affiliated to the RYA. The entrant risks DSQ if they don't qualify.

 

[Bobc]

The club pays a fee based on its subscription income, that maxes out at just under £4000.

The RYA are the agents for RRS in the UK. To enter a race run under RRS (pretty much all are) in the UK the entrant must be a personal member or belong to a club affiliated to the RYA. The entrant risks DSQ if they don't qualify.

Indeed. It's a bit of a closed shop.

 

[ylop]

In practice I think the RYA has now become a quasi government quango.

a what? Either you are a genius or you’ve no idea what QuANGO means….

I’m certain that if if the RYA was actually a government body it would be a nightmare - essentially the opposite from the RYA lobbies for just now - probably mandatory training, annual registration etc.

Unfortunately I agree, from memory I believe a few years ago the Government 'nationalised ' many of Sports Governing bodies by forcing a change in structure and dictating a constitution (including dictating / influencing the board make up?) If they were to be eligable for Lottery funding. This lead to a detachment from the membership and relevance.

Presumably all the people who want it to run how it used to the 50s or whenever they first joined are willing to put ridiculous amounts of their time in to do that, on a voluntary basis? Presumably those who don’t want the lottery finding are happy to see the bits of the organisation it supports just disappear OR if they are lottery players are happy for “their good cause funds” to be given out with no regard for the governance of the recipient?

The way you are all complaining you would think that membership was in some way either compulsory or at least the defacto position. Other than a few, like instructors (who I think quite reasonably have to be members) the rest of us are free, and alway have been, to go sailing without being members. Perhaps the question is why did you join in the first place?

 

[ylop]

Indeed. It's a bit of a closed shop.

Not really, most sports have something similar in their rules. The option to be a member of an affiliated club makes it very much not a closed shop.

But of course, if your race series doesn’t want the umbrella support of the RYA and World Sailing, it can form its own rules and let anyone it wants take part.

 

[rotrax]

Not really, most sports have something similar in their rules. The option to be a member of an affiliated club makes it very much not a closed shop.

But of course, if your race series doesn’t want the umbrella support of the RYA and World Sailing, it can form its own rules and let anyone it wants take part.

Absolutely correct.

Governing bodies have ground rules and membership of the National body allows members to compete in up to National level competitions.

National Governing bodies are linked to International Governing bodies who allow members of National GB's to access International competitions.

Simple, and, very sensible. Otherwise anarchy would rule.

 

[Koeketiene]

Simple, and, very sensible. Otherwise anarchy would rule.

You say that like it would be a bad thing.

 

[Bristolfashion]

a what? Either you are a genius or you’ve no idea what QuANGO means….

I’m certain that if if the RYA was actually a government body it would be a nightmare - essentially the opposite from the RYA lobbies for just now - probably mandatory training, annual registration etc.

Presumably all the people who want it to run how it used to the 50s or whenever they first joined are willing to put ridiculous amounts of their time in to do that, on a voluntary basis? Presumably those who don’t want the lottery finding are happy to see the bits of the organisation it supports just disappear OR if they are lottery players are happy for “their good cause funds” to be given out with no regard for the governance of the recipient?

The way you are all complaining you would think that membership was in some way either compulsory or at least the defacto position. Other than a few, like instructors (who I think quite reasonably have to be members) the rest of us are free, and alway have been, to go sailing without being members. Perhaps the question is why did you join in the first place?

Well, I never joined - my point was that the organisation has never "sold" itself to me as an organisation I should consider. It's not a conscious anti - RYA stance. Even when doing RYA qualifications I don't remember any discussion of joining at all. The CA seems to lobby pretty hard for me as a cruiser - frankly, I'm not even really aware of what the RYA does apart from qualifications and something to do with racing.

 

[capnsensible]

Well, I never joined - my point was that the organisation has never "sold" itself to me as an organisation I should consider. It's not a conscious anti - RYA stance. Even when doing RYA qualifications I don't remember any discussion of joining at all. The CA seems to lobby pretty hard for me as a cruiser - frankly, I'm not even really aware of what the RYA does apart from qualifications and something to do with racing.

Not knowing what they do is not a barrier for others to moan about them, it seems.....

 

[rogerthebodger]

The requirement for an entry into a agreement (entering any competition is entering into an agreement) is in contravention of out consumer protection act

Section of our CPA stated

Consumer’s right to select suppliers 13.

(1) A supplier must not require, as a condition of offering to supply or supplying any goods or services, or as a condition of entering into an agreement or transaction, that the consumer must—

(a) purchase any other particular goods or services from that supplier;

(b) enter into an additional agreement or transaction with the same supplier or a designated third party; or

(c) agree to purchase any particular goods or services from a designated third-party

So if to enter into a agreement to enter any event a consumer must enter into an agreement with a third party (RYA) that is in contravention to our CPA

This needs to be checked with the UK and or EU CPA

Any legal Eagles cair to comment

 

[NormanS]

Not really, most sports have something similar in their rules. The option to be a member of an affiliated club makes it very much not a closed shop.

But of course, if your race series doesn’t want the umbrella support of the RYA and World Sailing, it can form its own rules and let anyone it wants take part.

I have never thought of the kind of sail cruising that I do, as a "sport".

 

[rotrax]

You say that like it would be a bad thing.

Trust me, without strict rules safety, eligibility and class structure would be a nightmare.

Over 50 years involvement in Motorsports disiplines, both as a competitor and administrator.

 

[Poignard]

I have never thought of the kind of sail cruising that I do, as a "sport".

Neither have I.

More of an avocation

 

[rotrax]

I have never thought of the kind of sail cruising that I do, as a "sport".

I dont believe cruising is a 'Sport'.

IMHO it is a passtime or hobby.

 

[Whaup367]

Well, I never joined - my point was that the organisation has never "sold" itself to me as an organisation I should consider. It's not a conscious anti - RYA stance. Even when doing RYA qualifications I don't remember any discussion of joining at all. The CA seems to lobby pretty hard for me as a cruiser - frankly, I'm not even really aware of what the RYA does apart from qualifications and something to do with racing.

My experience it the reverse! I've little idea what the CA do and they don't seem to have any statutory role.
I just had a skim through their upcoming events list... the impression it gives is that anywhere north of the Wash is an adventurous destination, rather than home for their any of their members!

In recent years the RYA have become aware that the lack of expenditure on blowing their own trumpet is counterproductive and training centres and instructors are asked (& incentivised) to promote membership.

The RYA is the national governing body for boating, not just racing, and seems pretty effective to me: for a start, without their representation I think that licensing would be required for recreational boating, with pricing evolving to support enforcement. Just look at the industry that's grown up around HMO regulations for letting properties: local council staff expansion, training schemes for them, requirements for fire certifications, electrical installations, gas installations, green credentials... all driving up the cost of renting a home, as the tenant ultimately pays. Has this resulted in a huge reduction in deaths & injuries in rented accommodation? I don't think it has because (1) there were never that many to begin with (2) the rogue landlords letting dodgy properties just avoid the system and (3) the regulations are badly targeted. If the RYA can continue to hold the line against skipper licensing and boat registration then that's worth a chunk of (voluntary) fees in itself!

 

[rogerthebodger]

Trust me, without strict rules safety, eligibility and class structure would be a nightmare.

Over 50 years involvement in Motorsports disiplines, both as a competitor and administrator.

Rules safety and cla structure are a great but the eligibility based on being a paying member of an association is in my view unfair discrimination and against freedom of association and is contrary tos any requirement of equality

World sailing regulation 19 requires any one wishing to partake in an World sailing event must be a member in good standing of their National Member Association (RYA in the UK)

To comply with the rules ad any safety requirements of licencing requirements (driving licence / skippers licence is OK but not to just pay someone to be allowed to enter is not

The IOC code of ethics state that there must be no discrimination on any grounds yet one of the South African female athletes have been discriminated against dur to her natural testosterone level

For the record I don't wish to enter any sporting event but I used to have to pay a fee to our NMA as I was a member of an affiliated club as do all members even those who are only social members and those who don't even own a boat of sail

It just a money making racket

 

[rotrax]

A quick read of the CA's quarterly magazine would dispel the illusion you have very quickly.

The licencing thing is a bit of a red herring.

Very few problems with UK boaters compared to countries where licencing IS required. We seem, in the UK, to be a fairly responsable bunch who get on with our water sports and passtimes without undue dramas.

The RYA Training is first rate in my direct experience.

Apart from setting the sylibus and objects of the training it has little further involvement, leaving the sharp end to commercial outlets.

And, none the worse for it.

As a cruising sailor since 2004, once my training was completed to the level I chose, apart from the requirement of the ICC, the RYA has no benifit to me.

My clubs and the CA are far more relevant.

 

[rogerthebodger]

I agree Cruising Association is more relevant to sailors like you and me but its the RYA and world sailing who seem to wish to control all aspects of the sailing both completive and recreational

Again it's about personal right to choose.

The RYA courses and training would be your choice as should the right to enter any event providing you comply with technical and safety requirements

When I lived in the UK I had a boat and had o comply with all safety requirements and as I cruised on the canals I had to pay IWA for the use of their facilities and I used to do when I went to Brans hatch silverstone or Mallory park to watch motor racing

 

[rotrax]

Rules safety and cla structure are a great but the eligibility based on being a paying member of an association is in my view unfair discrimination and against freedom of association and is contrary tos any requirement of equality

World sailing regulation 19 requires any one wishing to partake in an World sailing event must be a member in good standing of their National Member Association (RYA in the UK)

To comply with the rules ad any safety requirements of licencing requirements (driving licence / skippers licence is OK but not to just pay someone to be allowed to enter is not

The IOC code of ethics state that there must be no discrimination on any grounds yet one of the South African female athletes have been discriminated against dur to her natural testosterone level

For the record I don't wish to enter any sporting event but I used to have to pay a fee to our NMA as I was a member of an affiliated club as do all members even those who are only social members and those who don't even own a boat of sail

It just a money making racket

You are fully entitled to your opinion, but you are talking total rubbish as far as regulated sports go.

Without regulation it would be anarchy, possibly unsafe for competitors and a free for all.

In Dynamic sports, as opposed to Budgie Breeding, ground rules must be set that apply equally to all competitors. What we know in British Sport as the "Level Playing Field", the same minimum requirement for all.

I have been a Motorsport machine examiner, licenced by the ACU and Speedway Control Board. The riders need to know the other competitors machines are safe and comply with the rules. They need to know their riding clothing and helmets are undamaged and comply with the set standard.

Without National and International Governing Bodies this would not be possible.

Which would make dynamic sport a hazardous place. Organisers, at all levels, have a 'Duty of Care' to ensure the sport involved is as safe as possible for both entrants and spectators. Without Governing Bodies to set these parameters, how would organisers know what to do?

Please let me know how your version of events would cover these serious matters.

Please note, insuring competitors in dynamic sports is difficult WITH responsible Governing Bodies. How competitors would get cover without a GB is something you can help us with perhaps?

 

[dunedin]

Not knowing what they do is not a barrier for others to moan about them, it seems.....

No, it does seem that lots of people seem to like to moan about organisations such as the RYA - but not to volunteer to be a member of the governance bodies to make it better.
It is easy to criticise from the sidelines (particularly if not even a member) but takes effort to get involved in improving things.

“Think not of what my country does for me, but what I do for my country.” (Replace country with other clubs and bodies that try to organise things)

PS And criticising the use of the word “sport” for sail cruising is just messing with words. All sorts of (semi) active hobbies are referred to as “sport”.

 

[Lightwave395]

I just had a skim through their upcoming events list... the impression it gives is that anywhere north of the Wash is an adventurous destination, rather than home for their any of their members!

CA members are spread widely, in fact Europe wide if not beyond. The 'events' in the upcoming list are simply winter talks, sometimes useful, sometimes just entertaining. We have, where I keep my boat, a 'Vilaine River' group with many members, most of which cruise the length of Atlantic France and many on to NW Spain and Portugal during the season, these groups are widespread from Spain up to the Baltic and a fund of useful info, worth every penny of membership on dealing with the 'B' word aspects of cruising alone, IMHO