Rocna Anchors acquired by Canada Metal Pacific

[GrantKing]

test

A proper Brinell test is almost non-destructive and will readily differentiate between the steels that have been used. For the amateur a centre punch will show whether the shank was made from 420 but it may be more difficult to decide whether it is 620 or 800. You would need to test a known Bisplate 80 against a 620 to be certain.

What we have to remember is that 620 is the new benchmark set by Smith and eagerly embraced by CMP and bambury.

Forget about any talk of 800, its not going to happen.

It is not likely that any purchased in 2011 is going to be 420 , they will most likely be only 620.

It does not matter any more with current production what bambury said or Smith said about the need or use of 800, they have changed the posts and everyone has to live with it from this point on.

The answer is simple, trust them working together to be truthful and honest and buy the product , or dont trust them and dont buy it.

You decide based on current information, exposed lies, deliberate exagerating of information, deceit and twisting of the facts and whatever comes out of the woodwork in the near future.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Welcome to the forum CMP, shame you also had to use a pseudonym though. How's the show going? Tell me honestly, do you regret getting into this, it's just that the post above smacks of desperation...

Just because his first post is about how he managed to get a personal audience with nice Mr Smith and the charming top man at CMP. Or his claims of inside knowledge of the workings of his distributor. Or his claim about a cast iron (!!) warranty that covers any eventuality. Or how wonderful his Rocna is.

You're not suggesting that he is a Rocna stooge?

 

[Morven]

Can anyone post a spec for the grade of cast iron the guarantee will be made from, I am not sure how well a casting made of that will hold and forumites here!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

They wont do that as to do so would open them up to more demands to "put it right" and would you want to have to replace around 5000 anchors? .

Why? As I understand it, CMP have simply taken over the licence. The outfit that sold the dodgy anchors was Holdfast which allegedly is in / about to be in receivership . So CMP would have no liability for anchors made under Holdfast.

Is that wrong?

 

[Bosun Higgs]

You're not suggesting that he is a Rocna stooge?

Could even be that we have stooges from other anchor makers on here, could it not?

 

[Colvic Watson]

Just because his first post is about how he managed to get a personal audience with nice Mr Smith and the charming top man at CMP. Or his claims of inside knowledge of the workings of his distributor. Or his claim about a cast iron (!!) warranty that covers any eventuality. Or how wonderful his Rocna is.

You're not suggesting that he is a Rocna stooge?

And surely not a third identity from you know who Shall I send a pm asking to place an order and see what response I get?

 

[Hoolie]

Why? As I understand it, CMP have simply taken over the licence. The outfit that sold the dodgy anchors was Holdfast which allegedly is in / about to be in receivership . So CMP would have no liability for anchors made under Holdfast.

Is that wrong?

It wouldn't be if John Mitchell, as a gesture of goodwill (or foolhardiness?) had not promised, I paraphrase, "to take all 420 grade steel anchors out of circulation". A promise seemingly made before it was clear exactly how many there are.

In their latest press release CMP refer to 420's made in early 2010 but nothing about anchors produced before that date.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Can anyone post a spec for the grade of cast iron the guarantee will be made from, I am not sure how well a casting made of that will hold and forumites here!

Cast Steel, I think. I don't think many would even attempt to weld cast iron. Cast steel is apparently not so easy either, and I still think it may have been one of the reasons why they used 420 instead of Bisplate 80 as that is even more difficult - but possible - to weld to cast. Grant says it was not, but other Lloyds certified welders have said they would not attempt to and certainly not on subcontract in China.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

It wouldn't be if John Mitchell, as a gesture of goodwill (or foolhardiness?) had not promised, I paraphrase, "to take all 420 grade steel anchors out of circulation". A promise seemingly made before it was clear exactly how many there are.

In their latest press release CMP refer to 420's made in early 2010 but nothing about anchors produced before that date.

Ahh! I see. Mind you I still doubt that it is legally enforceable because there is no contract.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Could even be that we have stooges from other anchor makers on here, could it not?

You keep repeating exactly the same point but, to date, you have not been able to offer one shred of evidence to support that claim. Continual repetition does not make it any more valid than it was the first time you said it.

 

[GrantKing]

Cast Steel, I think. I don't think many would even attempt to weld cast iron. Cast steel is apparently not so easy either, and I still think it may have been one of the reasons why they used 420 instead of Bisplate 80 as that is even more difficult - but possible - to weld to cast. Grant says it was not, but other Lloyds certified welders have said they would not attempt to and certainly not on subcontract in China.

Lets make it quite clear once again:

The move to China production and the use of a lower grade metal other than bis80 or equivalent was done to reduce manufacturing costs and increase profits.

Nothing to do with ease of welding or anything else just money money money.

 

[bigwow]

Cast Steel, I think. I don't think many would even attempt to weld cast iron. Cast steel is apparently not so easy either, and I still think it may have been one of the reasons why they used 420 instead of Bisplate 80 as that is even more difficult - but possible - to weld to cast. Grant says it was not, but other Lloyds certified welders have said they would not attempt to and certainly not on subcontract in China.

Morvens post was an ironic one me thinks

 

[Stork_III]

Cast Steel, I think. I don't think many would even attempt to weld cast iron. Cast steel is apparently not so easy either, and I still think it may have been one of the reasons why they used 420 instead of Bisplate 80 as that is even more difficult - but possible - to weld to cast. Grant says it was not, but other Lloyds certified welders have said they would not attempt to and certainly not on subcontract in China.

Have you ever heard of IRONY. Read the post again. To slow again.

 

[bigwow]

Have you ever heard of IRONY. Read the post again.

Beat you by one min

 

[GrantKing]

It wouldn't be if John Mitchell, as a gesture of goodwill (or foolhardiness?) had not promised, I paraphrase, "to take all 420 grade steel anchors out of circulation". A promise seemingly made before it was clear exactly how many there are.

In their latest press release CMP refer to 420's made in early 2010 but nothing about anchors produced before that date.

I do not think it is fair to hold John Mitchell to that rash promise made early in the piece when I do not think he was aware of the extent of the problem.

Had he been aware of it I dont think he would have made the announcement.

Perhaps it is time he also sought verification from Steven Polgar that 420 was used from the start and then he might stop listening to the lies from Bambury.

The big question is what are they going to do now?
Continue with the deceit or set a new mark?

 

[Hoolie]

Ahh! I see. Mind you I still doubt that it is legally enforceable because there is no contract.

Of course! It's all PR that seems, at the moment, not quite to be working out

 

[GrantKing]

Of course! It's all PR that seems, at the moment, not quite to be working out

There is another relevant factor here concerning Smith's announcement that not only is 620 fit for purpose and that 420 is still good enough and that is that in 2007 Peter Smith gave Bambury a letter allowing him to use a metal of lower grade specs if any of the following factors dictated a change:
price of metal
availablility of metal
market forces
profitability.

If Bambury chose to change metals then Smith absolved himself and Rocna from any potential liability and all liability arising from Bambury's actions was to rest firmly with Holdfast.

 

[GrantKing]

Why? As I understand it, CMP have simply taken over the licence. The outfit that sold the dodgy anchors was Holdfast which allegedly is in / about to be in receivership . So CMP would have no liability for anchors made under Holdfast.

Is that wrong?

No "allegedly" about it, they are in liquidation and that is a matter of court records ( see earlier post for link).

Correct in that CMP have no legal liability at all for anything prior to the date of their takeover.

 

[Hoolie]

There is another relevant factor here concerning Smith's announcement that not only is 620 fit for purpose and that 420 is still good enough and that is that in 2007 Peter Smith gave Bambury a letter allowing him to use a metal of lower grade specs if any of the following factors dictated a change:
price of metal
availablility of metal
market forces
profitability.

If Bambury chose to change metals then Smith absolved himself and Rocna from any potential liability and all liability arising from Bambury's actions was to rest firmly with Holdfast.

That's outrageous! Do you have a copy of that letter? It's dynamite!

 

[Rigger Mortice]

There is another relevant factor here concerning Smith's announcement that not only is 620 fit for purpose and that 420 is still good enough and that is that in 2007 Peter Smith gave Bambury a letter allowing him to use a metal of lower grade specs if any of the following factors dictated a change:
price of metal
availablility of metal
market forces
profitability.

If Bambury chose to change metals then Smith absolved himself and Rocna from any potential liability and all liability arising from Bambury's actions was to rest firmly with Holdfast.

So, Smith tells the outside world;-

"The shank on any anchor is a common failure point, normally bending when a high lateral load is applied (for instance, when the anchor fouls on a submarine obstacle and is jammed).

For this reason, the shank on the Rocna is a high tensile quenched and tempered steel, with a grade of around 800 MPa. Its pure resistance to bending is around three times that of mild steel. This adds to the price of the anchor, but compromising this strength is not something we would entertain."

.....but, at the same time, he is telling Bumbury that, for all he cares, Holdfast can make anchors from a bag of rusty old nails.

Remarkable.