River Dart, Singlehander for Newbie

[bpbpbp]

I’m not sure there is such a thing as a cheap boat with the specification you are looking for. Any boat that fits the bill and is cheap will likely come with a collection of problems that aren’t cheap to fix.

Have you considered a trailer sailer or dinghy? If you have space you would save on mooring fees which could otherwise soon eat into your budget.

Leave portion of the budget aside for safety gear such as a life jacket, VHF radio. First aid kit, anchor, fire extinguisher, etc, too.

Good luck with your search.

Thanks! Good point regarding budget for gear. I have some but not all items.

I'd like to be on the boat every weekend through summer, and don't really have space for a boat trailer.

 

[bpbpbp]

How about a lifting keel?
Seal 22

I like the Parkers! There are a couple for sale in my budget on their club website, but they are a long way from Devon and usually outboard engines.

 

[bpbpbp]

Think your right about the Centaurs, always was and still is a family boat. Can’t comment about a foxhound but if it feels right and good looks then don’t be worried about making an offer.
Good luck
Steveeasy

Thanks! I like them but feel they are overkill for the little adventures I want to do this year. I want to build confidence singlehanding, and think something a little smaller and more agile will be a good place to start.

 

[steveeasy]

Despite all my efforts my last 4 boats have all gone the same way. they have all needed upgrades and quite a bit of expenditure. My current boat I really thought it needed little fettling, but the reality is so different. So buy the very best boat you can find. not the dearest or cheapest but find the best boat. There will be a cracking one sitting somewhere with a newish engine and everything in order yes for your budget. Just hard to find them when your looking. The Sabre 27 is a nice boat. or go for something with lots of wood. dare I say a Twister. nice one in Bursledon, way above your budget but I recon an offer may be welcome. Bomb proof below the water line and relatively easy to sell.

steveeasy

Edit. just seen the above post. Centaur is big for 26ft, but a Twister is slender and super cool for 28ft. Think I might still have a yearning for another one having had 2.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

I like the Parkers! There are a couple for sale in my budget on their club website, but they are a long way from Devon and usually outboard engines.

Solent lake is more self contained. Down West we have strong currents and bigger tidal ranges. Exmouth current can trap one on their pontoon for instance. So solent boats can get away with 4.5hp outboards. Personally I would like 8hp for a 24ft.

 

[bpbpbp]

My recollection was sailfish had a lifting keel should that be of benefit? I also recall seawych had an active association so one thought is to buy a make which has an active association with rallies-only you can say how much space you need and how sporty -I remember spending the night in a Formula1 on a mooring in chi harbour and not certain I would recommend but I guess it depends how many on board. All I would say is buy something easy to sell on in your area.

Very good point, hadn't thought about the inevitable resale!! Thanks

 

[bpbpbp]

I have a bilge keel foxhound.
Bought in 2021 It’s my first sailboat coming from 25years of small power boats. I like it, it’s easy to single hand, I can manhandle it around locks and pontoons easily, and with a tiller pilot easy to sail solo. Friends with bigger boats and much more sailing experience tell me it’s well mannered and responsive, respectable to windward for a bilge keel and they always enjoy playing in my little boat.
The mast and boom are the original proctor, with a stackpack and lazy jacks. I replaced both sails and rigging last year and it was well worth the moderate expense for a cruising main with 2 reefs and a genny approx 110%. It doesn’t mind being reefed a little early, it still moves along on tiny scraps of sail.
The sail handling is basic, halyards in the cockpit and slab reefing at the mast but being small I can cope with that.
It’s lightweight, so easy to power in light airs, but the motion is lightweight in moderate seas. I’ve never sailed dinghies, but I guess the foxhound sails like a big one.
I have bought big rubber bungs for the cockpit drains as it soon backfills up when heeling or squatting down at the stern when pushing the 1gm10. I spent the first season in wellies until I got the bungs.
It’s a bit cramped for a couple, and the heads is not very private from the Vee berth, but we still manage to have holidays onboard.
I’m still spending far too much on upgrades for the realistic value of the boat and now looking favourably at Beneteau first 29s or Westerly Merlins for the bigger accommodation with the aft heads well private from the forepeak.

Thanks for sharing, that's really good to know especially the bungs. It seems like a good option for me with my limited budget, and to get my confidence up, before thinking about anything bigger.

 

[bpbpbp]

Where are you going to keep the boat? Is there are requirement for it to be launched and recovered on a trailer by a car, or will a yard be lifting it in and out?
I've heard good things about the Foxhound and the Duette is a classic in its own way. Personally I think an outboard is better for that size of boat, for easy maintenance and replacement, but each to their own of course.

I understand the pros of outboards, but I would like to gain experience of maintaining an inboard diesel, and the convenience of cockpit controls. At my budget I don't see many boats available with outboard cockpit controls.

Mooring on the Dart most likely, as this is where I live and I want to be out on it as often as possible

 

[Boathook]

Solent lake is more self contained. Down West we have strong currents and bigger tidal ranges. Exmouth current can trap one on their pontoon for instance. So solent boats can get away with 4.5hp outboards. Personally I would like 8hp for a 24ft.

The Solent has strong currents. Just have to work with them when cruising.

 

[bpbpbp]

Bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I should buy the Foxhound a get cracking, it's April. Some people are forever looking for the perfect boat, they lose sailing time and I am sure some eventually lose heart as well, and take up golf.

Lots of deep water in the West Country and you are unlikely to go aground with a sounder and chart plotter. Way back I was looking for a 24ft bilge keeler and by accident bought something with a deep keel, it was one of my better mistakes.

.

Haha I had a nightmare about chequered socks and golf buggies last night...

The Foxhound has a sounder... ok so the fin is a not a major dealbreaker, I will have some fun sailing it. Thanks!!

 

[bpbpbp]

Despite all my efforts my last 4 boats have all gone the same way. they have all needed upgrades and quite a bit of expenditure. My current boat I really thought it needed little fettling, but the reality is so different. So buy the very best boat you can find. not the dearest or cheapest but find the best boat. There will be a cracking one sitting somewhere with a newish engine and everything in order yes for your budget. Just hard to find them when your looking. The Sabre 27 is a nice boat. or go for something with lots of wood. dare I say a Twister. nice one in Bursledon, way above your budget but I recon an offer may be welcome. Bomb proof below the water line and relatively easy to sell.

steveeasy

Edit. just seen the above post. Centaur is big for 26ft, but a Twister is slender and super cool for 28ft. Think I might still have a yearning for another one having had 2.

Love the Twisters! Maybe for my next boat - I am a newbie and think I should start with something smaller as I'm not that confident yet.

Regarding offers, I have no idea about boat pricing or bidding etiquette. If you saw a Twister offered for £8k with clear signs that offers are welcome, what would you offer?

 

[bpbpbp]

Solent lake is more self contained. Down West we have strong currents and bigger tidal ranges. Exmouth current can trap one on their pontoon for instance. So solent boats can get away with 4.5hp outboards. Personally I would like 8hp for a 24ft.

I've got soooo muchhhh to learnnnn...

 

[Frogmogman]

I would suggest an Anderson 22; longstanding members of the forum are well aware that they are the acme of small yachts.

Sadly, can’t see any for sale in the UK.

 

[PhillM]

A few observaions on your requirements.

As others have said, at the price you want to pay, an inboard is going to be problematic. Replacement is easily twice the cost of that sort of boat. I did a replacement in an old wooden boat, and its amazing how quickly costs can esscolate. Second (cruiser) around, I went for an outboard, which I replaced last year for less than £1200. For comparision, in my previous 24 footer, the inboard replacement cost £3.5K for the engine + same again for everything else needed to install it.

Taking my Coribee Mk2 as an example. Borght in 2022, as a bit of a project for £2,200 (I know that was expensive but thats what you pay for a boat in May on the Solent). You can get boats in a better condition, but I do enjoy doing them up, hense what I have spent since.

Mast down, full service, standing rigging with a new fulrer, all in just short of £2K.
All controls back to cockput, including new deck hardware £400
New jackstay points, and jackstays £100
Fixing / replacing bilge pump, re-bedding chain plates and various other jobs on the hull, about £1K
Professional help to replace seacocks, fill in where an old depth had been and install new depth and log £1K inc instruments.
New Geneoa £500
New cusions professionally made £1K
Meths stove ( I didnt want gas), panholders, etc, £500 - Origio and their look alikes are expensive and hard to aquire. This will be removed as and when the boat is sold.
New outboard, tank and some extra cans £1200
Total rewire with new battery, solar and charger £700
New curtains £100.

I also added a new VHF, Onwa Plotter/AIS, Navionics, Compas and Tiller Pilot - Some of this I had and some was brand new, but about another £2K

I still need to change the windows at some stage. but they are sound and dont leak, just scruffy. I guess about £200 for the parts and I might get some help on this one.

So in all about 11K and what is the boat worth on the open market today (with the expensive electronics taken off) ... about £3k _ the outboard. So I might back less than half of what I have spent. But put another way, lets say I kee her for 5 seasons (this uear is season 3) thats less than £2k depreciation per year. So much less than a bigger boat. Also, my running costs are modest - £850 for a Hamble mooring, £200 for insurance and I chose to be a Yacht Club member and use the club launch but I dont have to. I could launch a dinghy for free.

Personally, I love knowing that may boat can take me anywhere I would want to go (including the west Country this year, hopefully).

 

[PhillM]

The Solent has strong currents. Just have to work with them when cruising.

Ive cruised both in a small boat. I would argue that the Solent is harder to single hand in a small boat due to the volume of traffic. Yes, you have to watch the weather and work the tides, but down West you don't have to juggle hundreds of others from keel boats to massive motorboats leaving significant wake. I find that stress levels tend to reduce the further west I go. Same across the channel. Once you are there its very relaxed.

 

[PhillM]

I understand the pros of outboards, but I would like to gain experience of maintaining an inboard diesel, and the convenience of cockpit controls. At my budget I don't see many boats available with outboard cockpit controls.

Mooring on the Dart most likely, as this is where I live and I want to be out on it as often as possible

If you can reach the outboard from the cockpit you dont need conckpit controls. Remember you will only want to manoover using the engine in and out of marinas/berths. After that find a way to keep it centred and use the tiller (or tiller pilot) until you are clear and able to put the sails up.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I’m surprised nobody’s mentioned a Sadler 25 bilge keel. (I note that there’s one for sale atm for £4k with a diesel inboard but I’ve no idea of it’s condition!). Proper little yacht with toilet etc that sails beautifully and would (in theory) take you most anywhere. Most Sadler 25’s command a little more capital outlay but they’re well worth the money IMHO.

Our daughter has a Pandora 700 bilge keel. Outboard is in a well but until I fitted a loo it was chemical toilet or bucket. It would also suit except no diesel…

 

[Stemar]

At £3K, pretty much any boat is going to need work. The trick is to find one where there's nothing about to sink you, so you can do it bit by bit. Tatty sails mean you won't get the best performance, but you're out on the water now, Leaky windows are annoying but not dangerous. You can fix both as and when. Grotty seacocks can't wait - they can sink you without warning.

What boat starts off with sorting out what you want to do with it. Are you out for the best performance, or is accommodation a higher priority? If the former, a lifting keel is likely to suit you better than twin keels. If the latter, definitely go bilge keels. We had a Snapdragon 24 for years. They're not the fastest by a long chalk - I used to joke that if we did the Round the Island race and finished before the cut-off time, we'd win on handicap, and going to windward is what the engine's for, but they'll look after you in a blow and are as roomy as you'll find in that length. A proper, albeit tiny, head is a big bonus if you have a friend of the opposite sex aboard. You should find one with an inboard engine in your budget.

 

[ProDave]

Think about how you are going to maintain the boat. I don't mean fix things that break, I mean normal maintenance.

Specifically I am thinking of winter lift out, scrub and antifoul. This is a boaters rite of passage, that most of us do every year.

A fin keel boat, to be lifted out will need a cradle to sit in. A bilge keel boat will usually sit on it's keels on a couple of blocks of wood. This is where joining a club really becomes worthwhile, most organise group crane in and crane out days and have a storage compound for winter storage.

Smaller boats with trailers can be launched and recovered on a slipway but particularly recovery is not as simple as you might think, and means dunking the trailer, which then means servicing the bearings and brakes after doing that. Club crane in rates became very attractive after doing that a couple of times.

 

[MisterBaxter]

I understand the pros of outboards, but I would like to gain experience of maintaining an inboard diesel, and the convenience of cockpit controls. At my budget I don't see many boats available with outboard cockpit controls.

Mooring on the Dart most likely, as this is where I live and I want to be out on it as often as possible

Fair points and anyway everyone has their own preferences about boats. But one last point worth considering is that for a small boat that sails well, like a Foxhound, Sonata or Duette, tilting the outboard up to get the prop out of the water makes an immediate and noticeable difference to sailing performance. It was one of the pleasures of my old Sonata - motor out of the river, sails up and sheeted in, then switch off the outboard - blissful silence - and tilt it up - the boat immediately steps up, the helm feels more alive, the water noise smooths out to a soft hiss. And that was only a little 3.5 hp with a tiny little prop by yacht standards.