Retirement cruiser 40-48' - thoughts?

[Nom de plume]

Time for a (new to us) boat for retirement.

Essentials;
At least one (preferably two) 'harbour' beds with proper mattresses and side access.
Reasonable weather protection so either pilothouse or centre cockpit with screen and cover at least.
Reasonable access to dinghy and dock so either opening transom or decent steps (not ladder).
Handled by two so decent reefing all led back. Self tacking jib nice but not essential. Easy motion, boat to provide 'she can take much more than us' confidence factor.
Decent motor to maintain hull speed in all but worst weather so 3-4 Hp/Ton.
Going by other threads - probably UK/Med in summers and winters Caribbean by either ship or delivery crew (haven't done a transatlantic since 1980 and no desire to).
Known brand for (relatively) easy re-sale as I'm not getting any younger - no one off's or custom builds.

Thinking maybe;
Bottom of budget - Beneteau 40/44 Oceanis CC - would need to be a very up together solid grp version.
Middle budget -Hylas 44, Moody 425, Wauquiez 43 PH.
Top end Moody 46 CC etc.

Thoughts on the above or any alternatives?

 

[stranded]

Might look at the Sunbeam 44 (I am of course biased) - slightly frumpy design but ticks all your boxes, solid as a rock but with a surprising turn of speed. Works well in the Med (where most are) and here in the chilly stuff. Ours was our first boat, stumbled across her in the boatyard when looking at something else and we see no reason ever to change.

 

[AndrewfromFal]

Fantasi 44, - slightly niche, but top quality Swedish build and the seem to get snapped up quickly when they come onto the market.

 

[RupertW]

Your needs sound like a comfortable cold climes boat but you say you will be Med/Caribbean. My surprise is centre cockpit because your front door to swimming, quays and the tender is through your stern and also that you want the biggest possible shaded area open to the cooling wind as that will be your living and dining and entertaining area almost all the time.

Finally the pilothouse? We want to be in the wind and weather because its warm and blue and exciting when breezy and the best through breeze is no sprayhood, no dodgers and definitely no pilot house to roast in.

But we see all sorts of different boats and everyone makes their own individual choices.

 

[Seven Spades]

Wauquiez 48, Hylas, Delphia 46CC, Southerly 42, or NORDSHIP 430 DS.

 

[ashtead]

Would a lifting keel not be useful in the Caribbean so I can see the appeal of a southerly but maybe you have seen the Distant shores on utube already. We have a Moody 41 which has double headsails with self tacker inner and is great solution and found on some you mention. I guess this depends on how much you are wedded to centre or aft cockpit which might be first question. If not a southerly what about Contest or a smaller oyster around 46 but maybe too large. If planning a longer trip then would storage space be key factor. Ideally you might be looking for a boat with genset, water maker etc plus parasailer etc. I would suggest speaking to to broker like Jonic who might give more views and have some choices to view . Other factor might be where you plan to buy but had you considered US boats like island packets etc? I think they do a 425 IP which looks ideal provided you can adjust to the handling in marina issues etc. Plenty of space etc , low mast for ICW etc ,kindly motion .

 

[lustyd]

Amel are pretty trendy probably due to Delos. They are pricey but seem well built and the layout is sensible for long term living.

 

[Bobc]

For Med/Caribbean, I would recommend an aft cockpit boat. The forepeak is the best place to sleep as it's less hot and tends to have good ventilation, so go for a boat with a nice master cabin in the bow.

 

[geem]

For Med/Caribbean, I would recommend an aft cockpit boat. The forepeak is the best place to sleep as it's less hot and tends to have good ventilation, so go for a boat with a nice master cabin in the bow.

Some thought on Caribbean suitable boats. Centre cockpits are just as popular in the Caribbean as aft cockpits if not more so.
Ventilation in any boats depends on the amount of ventilation not whether it has an aft cockpit or centre cockpit. Our front cabin has one large 700x700 hatch. Typical of most yachts. In the Caribbean you get regular short showers. Keeping adequate ventilation in the Caribbean if you sleep in the front can mean you get up regularly to open and close the hatch. By comparison the aft cabin has four portlights and three deck hatches. Two of the deck hatches are under the bimini so stay open in rain and the portlights rarely rain in. As a result it is cooler to and easier to sleep in our back cabin in the Tropics.
Not in your post but shallow draft is of little benefit in the Caribbean. The Bahamas is where you would benefit.
In addition, Caribbean sailing life is at anchor. Marinas are few and far between. They are also usually way to hot and not often in the breeze.
Watermakers are very common snd I suspect there are more boats with them than without. Being predominately at anchor it isnt so easy to just put the marina hose in your tank.
Since most boats are at anchor they are generally in the breeze. Great during the day but when you have friends around for drinks or dinner in the evening its still breezy. Shelter from wind and rain in the cockpit becomes important. Having to go down below with six guests with hatches closed because its raining is no fun. Being able to all sit outside and stay dry is very desirable. Since this is the way most liveaboards socialise in the Caribbean in the evenings its worth considering that the typical large open breezy cockpit perfect in the Med is not great in the Caribbean ?

 

[dankilb]

Hylas 44

+1 - my family cruised one from Hong Kong to Andaman Sea while living aboard in the 1990s. Never let us down, even in the most precarious and ill-judged conditions. The build quality always garnered complements (even from my grandfather who’d built his first boat - an Eventide - in his back garden and wasn’t inclined to endorse a Taiwanese marque!). The accommodation was also excellent and felt larger than its 44ft - which is saying something! My current 42’ Jeanneau feels like like a ‘30-something’ footer in comparison (and with its scoop stern it arguably is). The forepeak also offers a second proper ‘en suite’, just without the walk around layout of the aft master. We had a/c but did prefer the forepeak when at anchor.

Ours had a very conventional transom though (1989 - not sure if this changed with later models?). And the cockpit did feel a tad exposed in some conditions. The companion way steps had the ‘descent into the abyss’ feeling common with centre cockpits and a few people took a tumble over the years.

Above all, to me at least, they’re just so gorgeous with those Frers lines and ‘old fashioned’ coachroof profile.

My old man still wishes he never sold it (I was a teenager at the time).

 

[RupertW]

Some thought on Caribbean suitable boats. Centre cockpits are just as popular in the Caribbean as aft cockpits if not more so.
Ventilation in any boats depends on the amount of ventilation not whether it has an aft cockpit or centre cockpit. Our front cabin has one large 700x700 hatch. Typical of most yachts. In the Caribbean you get regular short showers. Keeping adequate ventilation in the Caribbean if you sleep in the front can mean you get up regularly to open and close the hatch. By comparison the aft cabin has four portlights and three deck hatches. Two of the deck hatches are under the bimini so stay open in rain and the portlights rarely rain in. As a result it is cooler to and easier to sleep in our back cabin in the Tropics.
Not in your post but shallow draft is of little benefit in the Caribbean. The Bahamas is where you would benefit.
In addition, Caribbean sailing life is at anchor. Marinas are few and far between. They are also usually way to hot and not often in the breeze.
Watermakers are very common snd I suspect there are more boats with them than without. Being predominately at anchor it isnt so easy to just put the marina hose in your tank.
Since most boats are at anchor they are generally in the breeze. Great during the day but when you have friends around for drinks or dinner in the evening its still breezy. Shelter from wind and rain in the cockpit becomes important. Having to go down below with six guests with hatches closed because its raining is no fun. Being able to all sit outside and stay dry is very desirable. Since this is the way most liveaboards socialise in the Caribbean in the evenings its worth considering that the typical large open breezy cockpit perfect in the Med is not great in the Caribbean ?

That’s really interesting - we have only chartered in the Caribbean which will be our destination next year as this year didn’t work out - aft cockpit is crucial I think in the Med for the reasons above but including the way you moor up there. However it sounds like adding side panels and maybe even a detachable spray hood would keep the cockpit more comfortable in the Caribbean at anchor. Thanks.

 

[Bobc]

That’s really interesting - we have only chartered in the Caribbean which will be our destination next year as this year didn’t work out - aft cockpit is crucial I think in the Med for the reasons above but including the way you moor up there. However it sounds like adding side panels and maybe even a detachable spray hood would keep the cockpit more comfortable in the Caribbean at anchor. Thanks.

Not much by way of current out there, so the boat is pretty much always pointing into the wind, so a sprayhood with a little panel joining it to the bimini is perfectly sufficient to keep the cockpit dry.

On the point about hatches and rain, I have my forward hatch so that it hinges at the front edge, and then put a breeze booster over the hatch, which lets the breeze in but keeps 90% of the rain out as you only need to have the hatch cracked open a bit.

 

[jonic]

The Hylas is a lovely beautifully finished boat, but a well found and updated Moody is a good choice too.

We have just bought a Moody 46 (Shoal draft). We did six years in the Med, Caribbean, Bahamas and USA on a shoal draft Moody 38 and liked the flexibility, especially in the Bahamas and inland waterways of the States.

I like the IP 45 too, although it is not CC. Boat Details - SOLD IP45 John Rodriguez Yachts

 

[doug748]

..............Finally the pilothouse? We want to be in the wind and weather because its warm and blue and exciting when breezy and the best through breeze is no sprayhood, no dodgers and definitely no pilot house to roast in.

Yes, a pilothouse is a grand thing but I think more attractive in the higher latitudes.
They can be broiling hot in the heat and low setting sun can be very uncomfortable. You really need quality blinds which can be troublesome or external shades over the windows which tend to get left in place and defeats the object of having windows.

.

 

[sailingmartin]

A Southerly 42 would tick most of your boxes. Lovely to live on with the deck saloon very light and airy. We had a three cabin version which gave extra flexibility for visiting crew (ie two friends of different sexes could each have their own space). Easily handles ocean crossings but lifting keel gives lots of options inshore.

 

[Bobc]

Going out on a limb here, but take a look at the Moody DS45.

 

[E39mad]

Not sure if the budget will stretch but there's a Regina 43 on Apollo Duck at present.

 

[siwhi]

I agree with geem in post #9. As per forum rules, I will exhibit confirmation bias and suggest what we had for 4 years in the tropics - a Moody 44. It meets all your criteria. Couple of things I really like:

- Sugar scoop stern makes dinghy entry even in chop easy.
- A stern facing hatch just by / above your head when in bed makes checking outside (anchor drag / weather / visitors, any other commotion, etc) really easy when in bed. Plus excellent ventilation. In fact, this is nearly top of my criteria for future boats. If you are backed up to a quay just close the hatch and pull closed the curtain.
- Plenty of space aft for a solar arch with BBQ, fishing kit, paddleboard, passarelle, davits, etc at the stern where you want it.
- 4 cabins - OK, really just 3 with a storage room (walk through double bunk cabin) - an excellent set up.
- The cockpit is good at sea - secure, well positioned, all lines come back to the cockpit. At anchor it is on the small side, but remove the wheel and you can get 10 round for drinks - it's tight like a pub snug but it works.
- We had a removable inner forestay for yankees and storm jibs and used it a lot downwind with the yankee poled out on one side and the genoa poled out on the other.

 

[lustyd]

Sugar scoop is a pretty specific term, do you mean easy access at the stern, or specifically a sugar scoop? Many designers seem to favour a folding platform now rather than sugar scoop

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Look at the Moody and Southerly. Also the Island Packet, although not everybody's cup of tea, they are very comfortable for the type of yacht that you are looking.