Major Catastrophe
New member
[ QUOTE ]
Other than Nautical and myself?
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So, what does it say?
Other than Nautical and myself?
[/ QUOTE ]
So, what does it say?
Request to Forum Admin to remove marklow video thread
- Thread starter Gludy
- Start date
Whitelighter
Active member
I don;t know as I don;t have it handy. It is so big I only really scan read it anyway and just picked out the important bits. Will have a detailed look later if it helps...
Gludy
Active member
Daka
I know you did not read all the thread but if you had you would see the response from Explorer yachts - the reason was thay want to produce their own 360 degree image system on their site and do not want my 'home video' - in effect spoiling the image.
I was the one who defended them on another thread pointing out that the owner may have restricted them. At the same time I was trying to get them to see the pronlem they were creating.
For the record I went to see the same boat in Scotland. The owner was a great guy who did not mind photos etc and even offered to leave us on the boat alone for a few hours to lock up ourselves! We did not take up his offer which we considered too generous.
I started this thread as a means of telling admin to remove the video thread - which they did.
The reason the video went out was to try to correct the problem with people not being able to see the boat - my intentions were totally honourable. It took a number of hours to edit and post it. They way we were told to remove it offended SWMBO and myself. I really think that the dealer thinks all images etc should always be controlled which means there is no real understanding of the internet and marketing. This was not an official video - it was my personal view on my personal video. However the issue is not the video. That is only a symptom of what I have increasingly grown uphappy about and done my best to correct without going public.
It would be wrong for me to to simply use the forum to bash whoever I fall out with - I am not doing that. I am by no means alone at being offended with my treatment. Other, serious potential customers have also been offended some of whom have PM's me and others gone public.
I was not the one who started objecting to the problems at SIBS - I was the one who did my best to defend and cure - part of that cure was the video. When SWMBO was told that it had to be removed - ordered to remove it in effect and do so now, that was the straw and the camel's back broke.
Maybe I am sensitive after the last two years but then it seems a number of other people were offended apart from me - people I have not met.
What I do know is thatI have to enjoy the buying process and that with this dealer is no longer the case. It may be fine with other people and I wish them no harm but for me, its a path I shall not take.
I know you did not read all the thread but if you had you would see the response from Explorer yachts - the reason was thay want to produce their own 360 degree image system on their site and do not want my 'home video' - in effect spoiling the image.
I was the one who defended them on another thread pointing out that the owner may have restricted them. At the same time I was trying to get them to see the pronlem they were creating.
For the record I went to see the same boat in Scotland. The owner was a great guy who did not mind photos etc and even offered to leave us on the boat alone for a few hours to lock up ourselves! We did not take up his offer which we considered too generous.
I started this thread as a means of telling admin to remove the video thread - which they did.
The reason the video went out was to try to correct the problem with people not being able to see the boat - my intentions were totally honourable. It took a number of hours to edit and post it. They way we were told to remove it offended SWMBO and myself. I really think that the dealer thinks all images etc should always be controlled which means there is no real understanding of the internet and marketing. This was not an official video - it was my personal view on my personal video. However the issue is not the video. That is only a symptom of what I have increasingly grown uphappy about and done my best to correct without going public.
It would be wrong for me to to simply use the forum to bash whoever I fall out with - I am not doing that. I am by no means alone at being offended with my treatment. Other, serious potential customers have also been offended some of whom have PM's me and others gone public.
I was not the one who started objecting to the problems at SIBS - I was the one who did my best to defend and cure - part of that cure was the video. When SWMBO was told that it had to be removed - ordered to remove it in effect and do so now, that was the straw and the camel's back broke.
Maybe I am sensitive after the last two years but then it seems a number of other people were offended apart from me - people I have not met.
What I do know is thatI have to enjoy the buying process and that with this dealer is no longer the case. It may be fine with other people and I wish them no harm but for me, its a path I shall not take.
rickp
Active member
Its irelevant, so I wouldn't bother Jez. No-one was stopped from taking photos of the outside of the boat. The inside is private property which is completely different. The boat show contract will not enforce a right for anyone to take photographs inside a boat - in just the same way as it doesn't enforce a right for universal access to a given boat. That will be down to the exhibitor's discretion.
Rick
Rick
goochie
New member
I think communication here is the key. If for example the scenario you suggest is correct, then I wonder how it was put to Gludy? Was it just a slightly offhand and unexplained request to 'cease and desist'? Surely a phone call with a bit of a chat first followed by
'look Mr ?, we have a bit of a problem and I was wondering if you might be able to help me with it"
"Go ahead"
"Well, it's like this........ and so we wondered if you could just hold fire with the video until we can get it properly sorted out"
That sort of approach usually works well for me anyway.
'look Mr ?, we have a bit of a problem and I was wondering if you might be able to help me with it"
"Go ahead"
"Well, it's like this........ and so we wondered if you could just hold fire with the video until we can get it properly sorted out"
That sort of approach usually works well for me anyway.
Gludy
Active member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
Mike - the objection was not to do with the owner.
It was about the poor quality of the video and claimed inaccuracies within it.
An immediate deletion was 'ordered'.
It seems that it they wish to control every image and every aspect of the presentation. That is the issue.
Mike - the objection was not to do with the owner.
It was about the poor quality of the video and claimed inaccuracies within it.
An immediate deletion was 'ordered'.
It seems that it they wish to control every image and every aspect of the presentation. That is the issue.
sunquest
Member
Sounds to me that Trader Wales are clones of Tony Chappel. Now that they have rebranded as Explorer Yachts, they cannot shake off the Chappel effect.
You can't teach an old dog new tricks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
You can't teach an old dog new tricks /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
goochie
New member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
Certainly seems a bit heavy handed. Having had a look around there website I can see they have something of an obsession with quality, which of course is to be applauded - it's why you like the boats so much - but as above, there are ways of communicating things, I'm sure if they had explained themselves properly and been friendly about it things would be different - you certainly seem a pretty mild mannered chap from the 'ferret' clip.
Certainly seems a bit heavy handed. Having had a look around there website I can see they have something of an obsession with quality, which of course is to be applauded - it's why you like the boats so much - but as above, there are ways of communicating things, I'm sure if they had explained themselves properly and been friendly about it things would be different - you certainly seem a pretty mild mannered chap from the 'ferret' clip.
Gludy
Active member
Goochie
It was not put that way at all.
Had the approach been different so would the outcome but there were issues building.
The best description as to how it was put was an ORDER.
I do not think they appreciate how the internet may be used for marketing and how the video, which was getting a rave reaction about the boat was a very positive thing. it was not part of their sales pitch but as such was even more powerful.
It was not put that way at all.
Had the approach been different so would the outcome but there were issues building.
The best description as to how it was put was an ORDER.
I do not think they appreciate how the internet may be used for marketing and how the video, which was getting a rave reaction about the boat was a very positive thing. it was not part of their sales pitch but as such was even more powerful.
lookout
New member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
[ QUOTE ]
an obsession with quality
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meaning Marlow, rather than the uk dealers there? Certainly Marlow's attitude appears to be one of, if we can improve it, do it.
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an obsession with quality
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meaning Marlow, rather than the uk dealers there? Certainly Marlow's attitude appears to be one of, if we can improve it, do it.
Nick_Pam
Member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
Paul
Sorry to hear about the trials and tribulations again....I'm like you (except for the size of my boat budget!!) and need to enjoy the buying process, to the extent that I walked away from a boat in Mallorca a few years ago because of the attitude of the broker, and bought the same brand elsewhere from someone who I felt I could trust.
I do wonder what David Marlow might have to say about the behaviour of his (new) UK representatives.....perhaps a quiet phone conversation or email??
I know if it were my company and the love of my life (as the yachts clearly are to David Marlow, from the tone of their website) I would be very grateful to know of anyone wholly or partially my representative or in my employment, who was denigrating my product.
I'd be tempted.........or maybe you have already??
Buy one from the factory....have them CE mark it for you, bank the VAT money and take your time cruising it back to Europe.......he said jealously!!
Nick
Paul
Sorry to hear about the trials and tribulations again....I'm like you (except for the size of my boat budget!!) and need to enjoy the buying process, to the extent that I walked away from a boat in Mallorca a few years ago because of the attitude of the broker, and bought the same brand elsewhere from someone who I felt I could trust.
I do wonder what David Marlow might have to say about the behaviour of his (new) UK representatives.....perhaps a quiet phone conversation or email??
I know if it were my company and the love of my life (as the yachts clearly are to David Marlow, from the tone of their website) I would be very grateful to know of anyone wholly or partially my representative or in my employment, who was denigrating my product.
I'd be tempted.........or maybe you have already??
Buy one from the factory....have them CE mark it for you, bank the VAT money and take your time cruising it back to Europe.......he said jealously!!
Nick
mikefleetwood
Well-known member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
Paul - yes, I do realise that their "issue" with you was the supposed quality of the video. I guess I was responding to some of the wider comments regarding access to the boat in question, just got the issues muddled up when it came to actually writing what I thought.
I do see that they appear to have been heavy handed in their treatment of you. Especially as a "valued" customer, and instrumental in them getting this dealership in the first place!
Mind you, I stand by my comments about namecalling (of which you were victim, not perpetrator).
Paul - yes, I do realise that their "issue" with you was the supposed quality of the video. I guess I was responding to some of the wider comments regarding access to the boat in question, just got the issues muddled up when it came to actually writing what I thought.
I do see that they appear to have been heavy handed in their treatment of you. Especially as a "valued" customer, and instrumental in them getting this dealership in the first place!
Mind you, I stand by my comments about namecalling (of which you were victim, not perpetrator).
Gludy
Active member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
Thanks for all that.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
I am not trying to put the boot in - all I am doing is withdrawing my business.
It is that simple.
Sure, I think David will quickly learn of it but I have not tried to email him or contact him but I have informed the USA dealer of the cancellation because they have some nice used Marlows for sale now and there are other options. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Thanks for all that.
It will be interesting to see what happens.
I am not trying to put the boot in - all I am doing is withdrawing my business.
It is that simple.
Sure, I think David will quickly learn of it but I have not tried to email him or contact him but I have informed the USA dealer of the cancellation because they have some nice used Marlows for sale now and there are other options. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
jfm
Well-known member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
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Explorer yachts are the renamed Trader Yachts Wales a company I have always spoken up for and supported.
Marlow have no financial interest in them as far as I know - they are an independent concern.
The rules are that I could have told them to 'go away' but chose instead to do as they asked and then take the ultimate action that I can take in the circumstances. It has cost them my order.
That was not the only order they were handed on a plate either. I arranged a very comfortable start up.
I have no intention of doing any other damage than to remove my business. The way this is going their self inflicted damage is greater than anything I can do.
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Ah, thought so. All good. Like your style, if you dont wanna do business with them then dont. Just buy one from a Florida dealer Gludy, easy peasy. You'll probly get a better deal managing the FX yourself anyway, and you can de-snag it (and have nice vacation) there for couple months then Dockwise it to Europe. Easy peasy. Once the boat is desnagged you dont need local dealer support, just maintain it using your own contractors. These Explorer Yachts folks need to learn that the world is a very small place nowadays and that Florida is quite close to Penarth... Good on yer
[ QUOTE ]
Explorer yachts are the renamed Trader Yachts Wales a company I have always spoken up for and supported.
Marlow have no financial interest in them as far as I know - they are an independent concern.
The rules are that I could have told them to 'go away' but chose instead to do as they asked and then take the ultimate action that I can take in the circumstances. It has cost them my order.
That was not the only order they were handed on a plate either. I arranged a very comfortable start up.
I have no intention of doing any other damage than to remove my business. The way this is going their self inflicted damage is greater than anything I can do.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, thought so. All good. Like your style, if you dont wanna do business with them then dont. Just buy one from a Florida dealer Gludy, easy peasy. You'll probly get a better deal managing the FX yourself anyway, and you can de-snag it (and have nice vacation) there for couple months then Dockwise it to Europe. Easy peasy. Once the boat is desnagged you dont need local dealer support, just maintain it using your own contractors. These Explorer Yachts folks need to learn that the world is a very small place nowadays and that Florida is quite close to Penarth... Good on yer
Gludy
Active member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
For the record, I have spoken with the boat owner, who in my view is king. What he says must go and there is no way I would ever want to offend him.
he did not even know about the issue and saw no problem in me taking a video - so the issue is simply that Explorer yachts wanted to control all publicity.
I already know of a number of parties who went to the show to choose and the result was that they were so offended one has already ordered another make of boat. they were willing to sign on the day, and others plan to buy from overseas.
So its strange to me that given the total spurning of genuine customers anyone should be worried about what possible , remote damage my video may do? When all the video did was engender a very postitive feeling towards the boats.
For the record, I have spoken with the boat owner, who in my view is king. What he says must go and there is no way I would ever want to offend him.
he did not even know about the issue and saw no problem in me taking a video - so the issue is simply that Explorer yachts wanted to control all publicity.
I already know of a number of parties who went to the show to choose and the result was that they were so offended one has already ordered another make of boat. they were willing to sign on the day, and others plan to buy from overseas.
So its strange to me that given the total spurning of genuine customers anyone should be worried about what possible , remote damage my video may do? When all the video did was engender a very postitive feeling towards the boats.
Nautorius
Active member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
Paul,
It seems someone at Explorer Yachts over-reacted. I did notice at the show they were a little snobby...we walked past whilst a women looked punters up and down saying 'I will see if we can fit you in, are you really interested?'
Shame as it is a good boat and the dealership have a good reputation for servicing existing customers. Obviously they lost the Plot on this occasion. Sorry it is not working out after all the work you did for them. I am amazed the fuss they made over the Video, it would have been lost to the archives in 3 weeks time! Some people are just control freaks,
anyway, just think of the loot that you will now be not paying them and the warm sun you can test her out in!
Cheers
Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Paul,
It seems someone at Explorer Yachts over-reacted. I did notice at the show they were a little snobby...we walked past whilst a women looked punters up and down saying 'I will see if we can fit you in, are you really interested?'
Shame as it is a good boat and the dealership have a good reputation for servicing existing customers. Obviously they lost the Plot on this occasion. Sorry it is not working out after all the work you did for them. I am amazed the fuss they made over the Video, it would have been lost to the archives in 3 weeks time! Some people are just control freaks,
anyway, just think of the loot that you will now be not paying them and the warm sun you can test her out in!
Cheers
Paul /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Gludy
Active member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
I think anyone can make mistakes and despite the girl being a nice person she just wasn't experienced enough to sift without any offence. That was the start of the problem but the problems continued through and when people who go on board do not like the attitude, despite arriving with Marlow as their favourite boat, and so leave and place an immediate order for another boat, there is a problem.
I am not the only one offended, many serious punters were also offended and some have already vowed not to go back.
My helpful email to try and help sort out the issue whilst publicly defending them was never even answered. . I have not even had a response to my cancellation and that is not negotiable.
I think anyone can make mistakes and despite the girl being a nice person she just wasn't experienced enough to sift without any offence. That was the start of the problem but the problems continued through and when people who go on board do not like the attitude, despite arriving with Marlow as their favourite boat, and so leave and place an immediate order for another boat, there is a problem.
I am not the only one offended, many serious punters were also offended and some have already vowed not to go back.
My helpful email to try and help sort out the issue whilst publicly defending them was never even answered. . I have not even had a response to my cancellation and that is not negotiable.
PowerYachtBlog
Well-known member
Re: Yeah right! And what if....
I really cannot understand the UK Marlow dealer Explorer Yachts....
I personally think there is no such better marketing then having owners happy about the product they have or the one they are buying
sharing this happiness with other passionate people IMO is the best advert for any boat being produced, having critism from the owners or captain alike for various issues it as worse as it can get
still Gludy was such in good will showing his future purchase LOL I wish my clients where like that cause before the deal is finished it is all about critizing...
I really cannot understand the UK Marlow dealer Explorer Yachts....
I personally think there is no such better marketing then having owners happy about the product they have or the one they are buying
sharing this happiness with other passionate people IMO is the best advert for any boat being produced, having critism from the owners or captain alike for various issues it as worse as it can get
still Gludy was such in good will showing his future purchase LOL I wish my clients where like that cause before the deal is finished it is all about critizing...
Major Catastrophe
New member
[ QUOTE ]
Its irelevant, so I wouldn't bother Jez. No-one was stopped from taking photos of the outside of the boat. The inside is private property which is completely different. The boat show contract will not enforce a right for anyone to take photographs inside a boat - in just the same way as it doesn't enforce a right for universal access to a given boat. That will be down to the exhibitor's discretion.
Rick
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Yes, you are probably correct that the contract may not cover the specifics, but reading the last contract for the annual ECTS video games show there is a clause reminding the exhibitors that this is an open media event and that all game footage is liable to be photographed and filmed and may be openly published without copyright constraints. I still do not believe that a boat owner 'loaning' to a manufacturer for the purposes of publicity will leave personal stuff on board and to all intents and purposes it is displayed as a bare boat. Anyway, all this is academic as Gludy alleges that the constraint was belatedly applied as they had decided to make their own film of this 'private' boat.
EDIT: Ah more is revealed and it was not the owner, just as I suspected. Of course, I am sure they had no legal grounds to stop the video, which is why I was curious to know if media publicity and copyright of photographs was covered in the show contract.
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I think anyone can make mistakes and despite the girl being a nice person she just wasn't experienced enough to sift without any offence.
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As others have noted, she really did manage to put backs up with not much more than a look, which led me to make my tongue in the cheek M&S remark on the other thread. I am thinking of adopting the Warning: No Entry sign for my avatar.
Its irelevant, so I wouldn't bother Jez. No-one was stopped from taking photos of the outside of the boat. The inside is private property which is completely different. The boat show contract will not enforce a right for anyone to take photographs inside a boat - in just the same way as it doesn't enforce a right for universal access to a given boat. That will be down to the exhibitor's discretion.
Rick
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, you are probably correct that the contract may not cover the specifics, but reading the last contract for the annual ECTS video games show there is a clause reminding the exhibitors that this is an open media event and that all game footage is liable to be photographed and filmed and may be openly published without copyright constraints. I still do not believe that a boat owner 'loaning' to a manufacturer for the purposes of publicity will leave personal stuff on board and to all intents and purposes it is displayed as a bare boat. Anyway, all this is academic as Gludy alleges that the constraint was belatedly applied as they had decided to make their own film of this 'private' boat.
EDIT: Ah more is revealed and it was not the owner, just as I suspected. Of course, I am sure they had no legal grounds to stop the video, which is why I was curious to know if media publicity and copyright of photographs was covered in the show contract.
[ QUOTE ]
I think anyone can make mistakes and despite the girl being a nice person she just wasn't experienced enough to sift without any offence.
[/ QUOTE ]
As others have noted, she really did manage to put backs up with not much more than a look, which led me to make my tongue in the cheek M&S remark on the other thread. I am thinking of adopting the Warning: No Entry sign for my avatar.
thailand69
New member
So when Gludy buys one in the US, is he allowed to post a video?
