Renting out a boat to live on

[jellyellie]

Hi there

I have an idea to buy another boat and rent it out for someone to live on. There are loads of graduates and young professionals who don't want to pay £650+ plus bills a month for a one-bed studio flat.

I have heard of a few people letting boats out like this and it has worked for them. I think it's a fantastic idea, but I don't want it to be more trouble than it's worth. I would pay the mooring fees and charge the tenant an all-in fee including renting the boat, berthing fees, electricity and of course water - around £500 a month, depending on the size of the boat.

So if I were to do this, how would I best protect myself and my 'tenant'?

I would lock the boat to pontoon and disable it mechanically so they can't go out in it, so I then wouldn't be affected by commercial mca regulations? I'd also, of course, get gas, electricity etc. certified by professionals so it's all safe.

Of course I would have the risk of tenants damaging things/not cleaning etc. but that's a risk with letting property. I'd also need to do maintenance like anti-foul and probably help unblock the toilet (!) so I'd factor this in to the cost.

What else would I need to do that's different to letting a house out?

Is this a crazy idea?

jelly

 

[Sniper]

Why bother antifouling if the boat isn't going to move? It'll save you money and also be better for the environment. You might need to check very carefully any mooring agreement terms; what you propose might be viewed as subletting.

 

[Flapjack]

I can see the toilet being a problem if you have a holding tank how do you move the boat so it can be pumped out, if you have a sea toilet you’re not going to be very popular with your neighbors in a marina setting. Also where are you thinking of doing this as in the Solent £500 a month would barely cover the mooring fees. And that’s if you can do it legally, most marina's seem to have clauses about liveaboards, don’t mean to sounds negative it sounds like a good plan but there are many hurdles to overcome to make it work.

 

[Jamesuk]

Is this a crazy idea?

jelly

Not crazy but stupid! If you already owned a boat and a sailing mate of yours was having problems with the wife then that kind of scenario would help to breakeven the cost of owning the yacht that year.

Think about making money another way! Referral websites now there is a quick buck!

 

[Sgeir]

It sounds like a very bad idea imho, the aquatic equivalent of socially irresponsible landlords turning decent houses into multi-occupied slums. I suggest that this sort of development would negatively impact other boat owners and users, including existing liveaboards.

 

[jellyellie]

Toilet: No holding tank, use marina facilities for anything more than just having a wee.

Not in the Solent, too expensive, but there are other cities all round the UK coast which are expensive to live ashore in but relatively cheap to live afloat.

Boat would be small (circa 25ft) - big enough for a single person who works most of the day but just needs a city base - so keeps mooring fees down, could turn a nice profit on ~£500 all-in.

The majority of marinas have clauses about no liveaboards but that usually doesn't stop people in practice; can't see this would be any different.

Sgeir - it's not a 'development', and to the contrary, the presence of liveaboards often increase security etc. in the marina. Like I say, I know people currently living aboard for this reason (living ashore is too expensive) and they certainly don't turn their marinas into slums! Of course, it just depends on who the tenant is and how well the boat is maintained. I don't want to be irresponsible.

Doesn't even have to be in a posh marina - could be a tidal yard or river, just somewhere accessible.

(By the way, this is just an idea for the future when I might have savings available.)

 

[flaming]

Hi there

I have an idea to buy another boat and rent it out for someone to live on. There are loads of graduates and young professionals who don't want to pay £650+ plus bills a month for a one-bed studio flat.

I have heard of a few people letting boats out like this and it has worked for them. I think it's a fantastic idea, but I don't want it to be more trouble than it's worth. I would pay the mooring fees and charge the tenant an all-in fee including renting the boat, berthing fees, electricity and of course water - around £500 a month, depending on the size of the boat.

So if I were to do this, how would I best protect myself and my 'tenant'?

I would lock the boat to pontoon and disable it mechanically so they can't go out in it, so I then wouldn't be affected by commercial mca regulations? I'd also, of course, get gas, electricity etc. certified by professionals so it's all safe.

Of course I would have the risk of tenants damaging things/not cleaning etc. but that's a risk with letting property. I'd also need to do maintenance like anti-foul and probably help unblock the toilet (!) so I'd factor this in to the cost.

What else would I need to do that's different to letting a house out?

Is this a crazy idea?

jelly

When a room in a shared house is going to come in under £400 a month (less if not London) and you're suggesting a 25 footer for circa £500....

I very much doubt you'd have any takers. I love boats, but it would have to be an awful lot cheaper than a houseshare before I even considered it. And if you did want to live on a boat, a 25 footer that could barely move is going to set you back a couple of grand - so why would you rent off someone else?

Would have to be at least 35 feet and cheaper (a lot cheaper) than a houseshare to make sense I think.

 

[jellyellie]

When a room in a shared house is going to come in under £400 a month (less if not London) and you're suggesting a 25 footer for circa £500....

I very much doubt you'd have any takers. I love boats, but it would have to be an awful lot cheaper than a houseshare before I even considered it. And if you did want to live on a boat, a 25 footer that could barely move is going to set you back a couple of grand - so why would you rent off someone else?

Would have to be at least 35 feet and cheaper (a lot cheaper) than a houseshare to make sense I think.

I suppose I am going for the person who would rather have their entirely own space than a room in a shared house for the same kind of money. And it'd probably be more like 28ft - and a motor boat, so more room for the length.

I've been looking around the £8-15k mark for a boat, so it would be pretty decent. A lot of people don't have the money - even literally one or two grand - to buy something outright, so this would be an ideal way of finding somewhere to live whilst looking for a job, then a cheap way to live to build up some savings to buy their own place/rent a flat.

I definitely don't think it would have to be 35ft long! The boat I live on is just 34ft, and that's with two adults and a dog. I could quite happily live on something 25ft as a single adult.

 

[Sgeir]

Boat would be small (circa 25ft) - big enough for a single person who works most of the day but just needs a city base - so keeps mooring fees down, could turn a nice profit on ~£500 all-in.

Sorry, leaving aside the toilet issues (and what would inevitably be issued from them), the "development" of a "buy-to-let" market for boats in marinas would inevitably impact upon the prices and availability of berths and moorings, and would be strongly resisted by other users.

Making a nice profit by turning a marina berth into an income stream would inevitably create a market if you were successful. In that circumstance, you would be inclined to invest more in order to amass greater profits; sensing your "success" others would then also attempt to move in, and a market would be created.

All liveaboards of my acquaintance own their vessels and look afer them and their surrounding environment; their stewardship approach is compatible with their lifestyle choice and is part of the DNA of most sailors. That is quite different from setting out with the intention of turning a tidy profit out of housing need.

The analogy with multi-occupation in in the buy-to-let sector is quite apposite in my view. You just have to look at the state of the gardens to get an indication of the tenant's and landlord's view of stewardship and neighbourly compatibilty. I do not believe that marina lets of non-sailing vessels to non-sailing tenants would be anything less than unpleasant for other boat users. I do not believe that anyanalogy between present liveaboards and non-sailing tenants is appropriate.

 

[jellyellie]

OK, thanks for your views Sgeir, taken onboard (ha ha).

Of course, though, not every single rental property is like a slum.

And I know for a fact this kind of thing already happens in marinas, so it does work, but sure, it could equally not work - just like renting a house, some look like slums and some are well-maintained with respectful occupiers.

By being incredibly fussy about who you allow to rent, and keeping the boat well-maintained as the 'landlord' - and possibly even having a maximum term to the rental - you can minimise any negative impact. There are enough boats rotting away in marinas; I don't want to add to these, but instead take one and make it look respectful and help someone live in a city they otherwise couldn't.

At the end of the day, I'm a liveaboard too, so I would put my lifestyle and concerns of my close neighbours and friends above any financial gain - there are plenty of other ways to invest my money - but I think this idea has merit on a really small scale.

 

[Boomshanka]

I speak with no experience or authority, but the things that come to my mind (as you would be a landlord rather than just a liveaboard) are:

1) fire certificates? Would all soft furnishings have to be rated?
2) council tax
3) insurance... could you get covered?
4) fine in the summer... but the winter (would it just sit empty)
5) could the tenant use it as a registered postal address for services/employment/receiving post - if it wasn't all above board
6) don't forget income/corporation tax etc in the business case

As someone else has mentioned, anyone really wanting to livaboard a <30ft boat could snap up an old tub from e-Bay for the equivalent of a couple of months rent.

 

[flaming]

I suppose I am going for the person who would rather have their entirely own space than a room in a shared house for the same kind of money. And it'd probably be more like 28ft - and a motor boat, so more room for the length.

Living aboard makes sense if you can raise the cash to buy the boat, but not a flat, as you'll get some of that cash back when you sell - unlike the rent you pay to a landlord.

We just found out how much we could charge for our spare room in a modern flat in Ocean Village, own balcony own bathroom etc. And it's almost the same as you're asking. And to be honest that's about the top of the houseshare market in this area. If you're renting - why would you put yourself through the difficulties of living aboard, using marina showers etc unless it was significantly cheaper?

 

[jellyellie]

Living aboard makes sense if you can raise the cash to buy the boat, but not a flat, as you'll get some of that cash back when you sell - unlike the rent you pay to a landlord.

We just found out how much we could charge for our spare room in a modern flat in Ocean Village, own balcony own bathroom etc. And it's almost the same as you're asking. And to be honest that's about the top of the houseshare market in this area. If you're renting - why would you put yourself through the difficulties of living aboard, using marina showers etc unless it was significantly cheaper?

Because it's a unique lifestyle and you have an entire boat to yourself. I would much rather live on a small boat than rent a room in a flat.

£500 is a ballpark anyway.

 

[jellyellie]

I speak with no experience or authority, but the things that come to my mind (as you would be a landlord rather than just a liveaboard) are:

1) fire certificates? Would all soft furnishings have to be rated?
2) council tax
3) insurance... could you get covered?
4) fine in the summer... but the winter (would it just sit empty)
5) could the tenant use it as a registered postal address for services/employment/receiving post - if it wasn't all above board
6) don't forget income/corporation tax etc in the business case

Thanks for those - that's the kind of thing I'm after. For instance, just the first point alone could make it all a complete arse.

 

[Boomshanka]

One of these might be a different prospect though (they were at the boat show):



They currently only do offices (clicky)... but floating studio flats are on the cards (clicky):

 

[Seajet]

The actual idea has merit, but it would require a major change in attitudes by marina operators and quite possibly law, as things stand it's a no-hoper, you would soon be rumbled by the operators and unpopular with all other berth holders including 'normal' liveaboards.

I doubt even students will want to live in a hostile atmosphere, it's hard enough living on a small boat in a marina in winter and being presentable for work etc, I've tried it.

I suggest you think big and make a well-sorted proposal to councils where there is great need, and think of proper houseboats not yachts - I think maybe Exeter may qualify ?

 

[chinita]

Because it's a unique lifestyle and you have an entire boat to yourself. I would much rather live on a small boat than rent a room in a flat.

£500 is a ballpark anyway.

Even to the hardy, 25ft is not a lot of 'entire boat to live on'. I lived on my 25ft boat in UK for 18 months and it was not particularly easy - (I had been living aboard a much bigger boat in the Med for 8 years prior).

OK, you would rather live on a small boat than rent a room in a flat. Me too; however, I would suggest we are slightly different from the mainstream. Anybody who is prepared to arise in the dark on an East Coast Marina and gingerly slip and slide their way along icy pontoons to the ablutions before returning to face all the other various practical complications in living in a confined space really has to love boats.

Add to that the loneliness (or, if you want to be positive - solitude) of spending night after winter night alone (there were no other liveaboards where I was) and I am beginning to wonder if your target tenant is really out there.

Even if you found your ideal punter I would fear the consequences of our dreadful litigious society. Who knows what liabilities you may have to face.

Regarding the attitude of marinas to liveaboards; ok 'don't ask, don't tell'. I have never had a problem - probably due to creeping around like a mouse, no parties, no dhobi hanging out etc. I don't think you could bank on that everywhere though. I have known a number of people who would bubble your enterprise to the Marina manager in a heartbeat. Imagine the Marina terminating your contract half way through the tenancy agreement. Where would that leave you?

It was a logical and clever idea. Personally I think it is fraught with danger.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Part of the attraction of a live-aboard lifestyle is casting off at the weekend and escaping - but you're going to chain the boat to the pontoon?

This sounds not much different to a damp cramped static caravan with outside loo and showers ..... going rate 50 quid a week tops.

Sounds like a romantic vision rather than a hard-nosed business plan

I have no idea how you would get an electricity safety certificate for the shore-power as you don't own the circuit breakers - so who's liable?

I guess you would have to get it coded for charter as the letting regulations for houses regarding gas, electricity etc. are not possible/practical for a boat.

Sometimes a perceived business opportunity is just that - perceived.

 

[Seajet]

Chinita makes a good point about icy pontoons; at my local marina I know 3 people have died that way, and that was quite a while ago, quite possibly more now.

This could be awkward, and it's a safe bet the lack of any more rent would be the least of your worries.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Now, if you were talking about this...