Red Ensign Broker

Mister E

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Anyway back to the original question I made.
Does all the legal stuff about contract apply to someone living in Turkey with the company based in England?
 

lustyd

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I simply posted a screenshot from an open UK government website which is intended to be there to inform the public
You posted two people's personal information without their consent to a forum without having given them a reasonable time to respond. You're acting like a petulant child and you're not realising that your actions are inappropriate and potentially breaking laws. You have absolutely no evidence that Red Ensign have done anything wrong yet here you are dragging people's names through the mud in a very public forum and posting their personal details without their consent.

As I said before, Companies house do have consent to hold and publish those details. You do not have consent to do the same.
 

lustyd

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Anyway back to the original question I made.
Does all the legal stuff about contract apply to someone living in Turkey with the company based in England?
Yes. GDPR and derivatives apply to data within the jurisdiction, people within the jurisdiction, and citizens from that jurisdiction while elsewhere or whose data is held elsewhere. It was written specifically in this way, as is explained within the text (it's not a particularly long read).

I don't believe Turkey has yet implemented their own, although I've not really looked that hard.
 

lustyd

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But is a Turkish citizen covered by English gdpr?
when their data is in the UK, yes. The law stops companies in the UK abusing anyone's data and all companies everywhere abusing British citizen data.

It obviously offers no protection to Turkish people in Turkey dealing with Turkish companies
 

Poecheng

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......

As I said before, Companies house do have consent to hold and publish those details. You do not have consent to do the same.
I don't get this.
CH publishes this information in line with the Government's requirement for openness and transparency in respect of company control and ownership. It is not merely publicly available information in the sense that someone has managed somehow to find it in a corner of the internet; it is published deliberate and is required to be published*. It is properly and deliberately open source information and it is a public record.

Not only is there nothing illegal or wrong in repeating that information in these circumstances, it seems to me entirely wrong to suggest that there is and entirely contrary to the purpose for which it is obtained and published in the first place.
Now that doesn't mean that all such re-publication is proper: if you publish it on social media to send a crowd round to beat them up, that is a wrongful use of the information. Equally, this forum may (I don't know) prohibit personal information being transmitted and that is their right and the OP would have to abide by that.
But the general suggestion that it is wrong to re-publish open source material that is a public record seems absurd to me; the question of consent simply does not arise.

*Save where there are exceptions for safety or sensitivity reasons.
 

lustyd

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Not only is there nothing illegal or wrong in repeating that information in these circumstances
That's not the case. The information is made available for use by people, but the information being publicly visible doesn't mean it's free to use or republish. You still need consent of the individual to publish their personal information.
Even ignoring the legal aspect, it's just not cricket to go on the Internet and throw a tantrum and drag people and businesses through the mud without first giving them the opportunity to defend themselves. I'm sure it will be argued that that's been done, but it's only been just over a week so it's unreasonable to expect a response and extremely entitled to think they must respond immediately.

And it's just plain bad manners to act that way in public.
 

Mister E

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when their data is in the UK, yes. The law stops companies in the UK abusing anyone's data and all companies everywhere abusing British citizen data.

It obviously offers no protection to Turkish people in Turkey dealing with Turkish companies
So the email address could have been shared by a Turkish company.
 

lustyd

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So the email address could have been shared by a Turkish company.
Yes, but it seems to have ultimately been used by a British company so still covered. It's possible the mailer was sent out by a Turkish company and the British company had nothing to do with it aside from requesting a mailer for a given group of people, in which case they've not processed or held the data and therefore done nothing wrong.
 

Fr J Hackett

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Not having contributed to this thread but having followed it with a little interest I am astonished that anyone should:

Consider that posting a screenshot of already published and therefore in the public domain, information albeit personal to be some sort of offence and worthy of censure.
Which brings me to the second point of interest, whilst it is to a degree understandable that people using this or any forum would want offensive posts of any sort removed and as such are legitimised in reporting them to the forum moderators. However when to use a phrase they "have no skin in the game" yet report posts I find strange, very strange indeed, do they consider themselves some sort of guardian of what is right and wrong? Even stranger is that moderators should give credence to them in many cases, this being an example where for the life of me I see no breach of the forums rather extensive regulations.

As for the OPs displeasure in having his personal information being appropriated and used by a company that he has no interest in then for sure he holds the high ground and deserves both an apology and information as to who how and why his e mail address and any other information was obtained by the company in question.
 

lustyd

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However when to use a phrase they "have no skin in the game" yet report posts I find strange, very strange indeed, do they consider themselves some sort of guardian of what is right and wrong?
it's fundamentally the subject of the thread. You can't demand privacy while stripping others of it.

Consider that posting a screenshot of already published and therefore in the public domain, information albeit personal to be some sort of offence and worthy of censure.
It's the law, so your opinion is irrelevant. Many things are available in the public domain, photos are a good example. You can post someone else's photo, but you don't have the rights to do so and will be on the wrong side of the law in so doing. This is a common misconception and getting worse over time. Cars on the street are not free to take, it's the same with information online.
 

Fr J Hackett

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it's fundamentally the subject of the thread. You can't demand privacy while stripping others of it.


It's the law, so your opinion is irrelevant.
It's your interpretation of the law. However I am intrigued as to your motivation in reporting the thread and what you hoped to gain from it rather than letting the forum moderators do their job.

As for demanding privacy and stripping others of it Irish Rover hasn't in any form published the e mail address that Red Ensign used to contact him, however the director of Red Ensign had made his details public presumably so that people could contact him.
 

Irish Rover

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Can you please show me the allegations of wrongdoing to which you're referring.

it's just not cricket to go on the Internet and throw a tantrum and drag people and businesses through the mud
@lustyd you obviously missed my #65 so I'm repeating it here to give you an opportunity to reply.
Also where did I throw a tantrum and drag people and businesses through the mud?
 

lustyd

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I am intrigued as to your motivation in reporting the thread
The same thing that made me read it in the first place, I'm an expert in the subject for work. As such I was interested that someone's email address was being used without consent (and had knowledge that is useful), and I was also interested when the OP decided to abuse someone else's information without consent (and I had a report button to address it).

If you're suggesting we shouldn't get involved in subjects we are experts in because that somehow makes us busybody's then the forum would be over in a heartbeat.

however the director of Red Ensign had made his details public presumably so that people could contact him.
No, the director published details with companies house as required by law to allow people to contact him. He did not consent to those personal details being posted in a forum suggesting he's somehow broken the law. OP is absolutely entitled to use those details to contact the director, but posting them in a forum holds no purpose whatsoever and does not have the consent of the individual.
 

lustyd

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@lustyd you obviously missed my #65 so I'm repeating it here to give you an opportunity to reply.
No, I ignored it because you're not being constructive or trying to fix your problem, you've just turned to attack mode which is unhelpful
Also where did I throw a tantrum and drag people and businesses through the mud?
The whole thread. Repeatedly. Have a re-read.
 

Fr J Hackett

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The same thing that made me read it in the first place, I'm an expert in the subject for work. As such I was interested that someone's email address was being used without consent (and had knowledge that is useful), and I was also interested when the OP decided to abuse someone else's information without consent (and I had a report button to address it).

If you're suggesting we shouldn't get involved in subjects we are experts in because that somehow makes us busybody's then the forum would be over in a heartbeat.


No, the director published details with companies house as required by law to allow people to contact him. He did not consent to those personal details being posted in a forum suggesting he's somehow broken the law. OP is absolutely entitled to use those details to contact the director, but posting them in a forum holds no purpose whatsoever and does not have the consent of the individual.
Whilst you may or indeed not be right I think and of course I may be right or not, that the law would take a common sense view of the matter as espoused in post #67. As to the question of expert views on this and any other matter surely the appropriate thing is to air them in the thread ie say something along the lines of Mr Irish Rover I think you may be in breach of .......... ( quoting the relevant law) and maybe the forum regulations and leave it at that for the moderators to do their job, rather than take it on yourself to do it for them when there has been no personal attack on you or any other forum member or offensive posting.
 

Irish Rover

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No, I ignored it because you're not being constructive or trying to fix your problem, you've just turned to attack mode which is unhelpful

The whole thread. Repeatedly. Have a re-read.
I don't have a problem, as such. I've made zero allegations of illegality or impropriety against Red Ensign. I got an email from them and I was curious where they got my email address. This is the text of the email I sent to them in reply

Hi,
With regard to your email below I would like to learn how you obtained my email address.
Best regards

As far as I can see you're the only person on this thread making unsubstantiated allegations.
 

lustyd

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and maybe the forum regulations and leave it at that for the moderators to do their job, rather than take it on yourself to do it for them when there has been no personal attack on you or any other forum member or offensive posting.
I just reported it, the forum admins did do their job. It wasn't my data, no, but the person whose data was posted wasn't asked or informed and therefore not here to defend themselves. I'd step in to prevent a stranger getting mugged, and I stepped in here as it's the right thing to do.


This thread is now very far from the scuttlebutt forum boating topics and it's descending into an argument so I'll unwatch. Hopefully admin will move it to the lounge, but I won't report it again
 
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