Red diesel problems in Belgium again it seems

[grumpy_o_g]

Try buying some perfectly legal marijuana in the Netherlands and bringing it back to the UK in your boat.

To make your analogy valid Marijuana would have to be legal and highly taxed in both countries but with a particular tax or duty exemption such as marijuana prescribed for medical purposes, available in Holland. The medical marijuana would need to be marked with a dye to identify it as tax or duty free although the permitted use cases for the dyed marijuana might be slightly different in each country. Then, because the UK dies it's medical marijuana yellow and The Netherlands dies it's medical marijuana purple, the UK starts fining Dutch people for having microscopic traces of purple dye from Dutch marijuana in a box containing perfectly legal yellow UK marijuana.

I'm afraid "One reasons with Brexiters in much the same way as one reasons with two year olds - smile brightly, give them a rusk, mop up the dribble and move on to something more intellectually rewarding, like cutting one's toenails." is not a remark I can give any credence too (even if it were expressed in a less unpleasant way), given the rather ironic fact that it is itself an irrational comment fuelled by emotion rather reason.

 

[sailaboutvic]

So easy to solve the problem , stop going to Belgium , once it hurt their pocket , then maybe some thing will be done about it .
It wasn't long ago that the RBYC was up in arms about British yacht not visiting beglum and the money local business was losing .
maybe it's time for the RYA , CA and other sailing club to advise people not to visiting Belgium ,
sorry all our Belgium friends if your reading this .

 

[jordanbasset]

When I lose I move on, remoaners just hurl insults!

 

[Tomahawk]

We were going to visit Oostend...

 

[Tomahawk]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Grumbling here does nothing.
I have emailed a link to this thread to RNSYC RYCO and Scarphoot.

 

[sailorman]

So it seems.

When I do eventually get to do my much hoped for trip to the Baltic, I shall be going directly from Dunkirk to the Netherlands. I have no desire to be fined.

you will be sailing through Belgian waters & it has been reported some have been boarded offshore & checked , so you will need a long detour to avoid the issue

 

[Momac]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

If I now start to collect receipts for red diesel on the 60/40 split on duty would that avoid issues when and if I go to the Netherlands or Belgium in summer 2018?
Is the Netherlands a safer bet for avoidance of fines?

 

[NormanS]

you will be sailing through Belgian waters & it has been reported some have been boarded offshore & checked , so you will need a long detour to avoid the issue

Reference???

 

[sailorman]

search ybw its there somewhere

 

[oldgit]

again it seems...audiens cave ?

Does nobody on these forums ever wait for the actual facts to emerge and to find out the actual circumstances of the event that is alleged to have have reported by a single boater , curiously without any confirmation at all from other sources.
Well reminds me of the Pavlovian response to a recent(ish) plea to sign a petition on some matter or other on the forums.
Several forumites,whos balanced opinions are of value signed up, only to rapidly retract, when they found out the real reason behind the petition.

 

[Niander]

I wonder what the level of red was?

I only ever use white, but there will be "traces" in the tank. [/FONT][/COLOR]

It amazes me that people use white when red is so much cheaper?

 

[martinriches]

I'm in Belgium at the moment. I spent a week in Newport and now in the canals for two weeks. I'm guessing the problems are going to arise at the ports of entry. Anyway I'm going to Antwerp on Sunday then to the Netherlands, I've decided not to worry about it but I wouldn't have come if this had happened a few weeks ago. It's a shame because it's a nice country.

Martin

 

[Pete7]

It amazes me that people use white when red is so much cheaper?

Is it though, £1.11 in Gosport petrol station yesterday, about £0.90 in the marina, hardly a huge difference for a yacht, although for a large mobo it might make a difference. Oh, just seen your from Yorkshire, now I understand.

Pete

 

[David435]

Just as a matter of interest but what do Belgium registered yachts and motor boats do when they need to refuel in British marinas with red diesel?

 

[Daydream believer]

search ybw its there somewhere

You are correct. I recall a report that a motor boat passing through belgian waters was stopped by customs & fined.
When i cannot recall

However, under international law if a vessel outside the EU enters a EU state with red diesel in its tanks that has been obtained outside the EU then this is not illegal. This was advised to me by the RYA when i queried the purchase of red fuel in guernsey.
So bring on brexit & let's get out of the EU

 

[JumbleDuck]

Whilst I can understand problems in the areas you highlight, these are very different in nature to fuel.

Free movement of goods only works if there is international agreement about the rules. Britain has chosen not to adopt the rules used across Europe and can hardly complain if that bites. It would be like complaining that it was hard to sell British built boats in Europe if builders here ignored the RCD.

In other words, you can't freely move any old goods.

 

[JumbleDuck]

No. You are just making things up. just read what I wrote and you will realise your interpretation is simply wrong.

Well, there was also your complaint about "unelected bureaucrats", which is a standard and odd one, because being unelected is more or less the definition of being a bureaucrat. When did you last vote for the Poole harbourmaster, or for the junior clerk in DWP who processes your pension?

Or is it different when they're foreign?

 

[JumbleDuck]

That is the intention. All I am doing is highlighting how difficult it is to ensure that Directives are turned into law in exactly the same way in 28 different states.

Do you think that's a good thing or a bad thing?

We have the odd situation that Westminster is on the one hand fighting federalism in Europe and devolution in the UK!

"Federalism" means the same as "devolution".

 

[JumbleDuck]

To make your analogy valid Marijuana would have to be legal and highly taxed in both countries...

There would be absolutely no issue with red diesel if the UK played by the same rules.

I'm afraid "One reasons with Brexiters in much the same way as one reasons with two year olds - smile brightly, give them a rusk, mop up the dribble and move on to something more intellectually rewarding, like cutting one's toenails." is not a remark I can give any credence too (even if it were expressed in a less unpleasant way), given the rather ironic fact that it is itself an irrational comment fuelled by emotion rather reason.

Based on observation, my dear fellow. Observe for example, the people in this thread complaining both that (a) the EU forces the same rules on all member states and that (b) member states ignore the EU's rules.[1] As I have written before, Brexiters are either to stupid to appreciate what they have done to the country they profess to love, to old to care what they have done or, sometimes, both.

[1] Though there is some consistency, because a couple of them are people who previously complained that the Greeks didn't pay their taxes and then complained when the Greeks started forcing them to pay their taxes.

 

[Marmalade]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

If I now start to collect receipts for red diesel on the 60/40 split on duty would that avoid issues when and if I go to the Netherlands or Belgium in summer 2018?
Is the Netherlands a safer bet for avoidance of fines?

The offence is having marked diesel in your tanks. Receipts only prove the amount of tax you've paid - but the offence isn't a tax dodging offence.

Someone asked why the skipper's attitude was called into question. It's valid because many of us ply in and out of Oostende / Nieuwport; sometimes being boarded but never falling foul of the red diesel rules. Given that, it's reasonable to ask whether there were any other circumstances / factors in this instance.

I see fewer and fewer British boats in RNSYC these days. Marmalade is in France at the moment and Normandy was like Holland on Sea - i.e. most visitors were Dutch rather than Brits. More Brits in Brittany but mostly south coasters I suspect. I don't think the Belgians will notice a financial impact of Brit boats avoiding their coast. Shame really as I like Belgium a lot.

I'd like to know more from the RYA and the Belgian yacht clubs before making a call but this is the first clear instance of a Brit being actually fined. Academic for us this summer as we've gone French but later in the year I'd have liked a weekend in Oostende.