Red diesel problems in Belgium again it seems

[jimi]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

The boat in question had refuelled abroad. I wonder if he still had his receipts for his previous purchases of red diesel or if he had thought recent purchases of white diesel would put him in the clear. When I fill up I'll certainly keep the receipt and ensure that I dont accept the heating allowance of 40%. Doing that I think I'd be prepared to risk it.

 

[Javelin]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Nope its the same as in 2014 where there was a fine for a Norwegian vessel for the discovery of trace red diesel.
This vessel had spent over a year in Dutch waters and filled and re-filled with White at Middleburg if I remember rightly.
The customs were not interested in paperwork and levied a fine based on 1 euro times the capacity of the fuel tank which | think worked out to 150 euros.

 

[jimi]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

i'm wondering if you'd be safer with full blown red diesel and a valid receipt rather than white with trace of red and a red receipt over a year old.

 

[xyachtdave]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

I'm wondering as mentioned earlier if the skippers attitude was to blame?

Is there a possibility he entered a harbour against the port control lights, cut a ship up on the way in, lit a cigarrete up on the fuel berth and broke the harbour speed limit before tying up for the night in the customs boats berth?

And when questioned told them to sod off?

 

[Boz]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Heard back from the RYA. They understand there was no argument involved and that the skipper wasn't given opportunity to show diesel paperwork. RYA pointed out that although we have been advised to carry recent receipts, actually their standard advice remains that use of red is illegal in Belgium, full stop.
That's Belgium off the list once again for me, I'm afraid.

The RYA advice above would indicate all this talk of Full Duty Invoices is purely academic and the actions of the Belgium Officials would seem to back that up.......

 

[Stork_III]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Nope its the same as in 2014 where there was a fine for a Norwegian vessel for the discovery of trace red diesel.
This vessel had spent over a year in Dutch waters and filled and re-filled with White at Middleburg if I remember rightly.
The customs were not interested in paperwork and levied a fine based on 1 euro times the capacity of the fuel tank which | think worked out to 150 euros.

A Dutch Customs Officer told me that the fine is 4.6 euros/l of tank capacity, which would be near 500 euros for my boat.

 

[Ianqv]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Just boycott Belgium! When their Marina's and restaurants are empty (and not collecting Tax's) - they will soon change their mind. At the moment.... we are still going there and being fined for the pleasure!!
We will NOT be going until this ridiculous bureaucratic mess has been sorted out.

 

[Independence]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Just cancelled my planned trip.

It's supposed to be a holiday, not sure all this fits in!

 

[nigelm]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

If a vessel has a small main tank surely it must carry spare fuel , on our recent visit to the Voor Anker I had to do just that , I have only ever put white in the main tank in last 7 in years of ownership and on longer trips carried 40 litres of White in two containers , is this now going to cause me a problem ? , we didn't see one official during the V/A though ..

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

A question; does white diesel sold on the Continent contain FAME? Or is it essentially the same as our marina grade red diesel?

 

[Niffler]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

I'm wondering as mentioned earlier if the skippers attitude was to blame?

Is there a possibility he entered a harbour against the port control lights, cut a ship up on the way in, lit a cigarrete up on the fuel berth and broke the harbour speed limit before tying up for the night in the customs boats berth?

And when questioned told them to sod off?

Why so quick to blame the skipper - with no evidence? The Belgians passed a law banning red diesel, they said they would fine users, they are fining users. So why must the skipper have been truculent?

Belgium businesses will suffer but tough luck and frankly it was only ever a handy stop over en route to Dutchland; a big shame if they loose out though, I like Dutchies, very phlegmatic race.

 

[Major_Clanger]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

I can't see that any offence has been committed. The diesel has been bought abroad perfectly legally and UK yachtsmen/women have not tried to defraud the Belgium Exchequer. Any fuel bought there obviously carries duty and we pay it, so I'm not sure I understand why they're so miffed.

Thankfully their coastline is short, so it's easy to avoid the place if desired.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

I can't see that any offence has been committed. The diesel has been bought abroad perfectly legally and UK yachtsmen/women have not tried to defraud the Belgium Exchequer. Any fuel bought there obviously carries duty and we pay it, so I'm not sure I understand why they're so miffed.

Thankfully their coastline is short, so it's easy to avoid the place if desired.

Their coastline may be short but they have stopped and fined boats for passing through their territorial waters with traces of red diesel in their tanks - see earlier in the thread.

 

[Major_Clanger]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Their coastline may be short but they have stopped and fined boats for passing through their territorial waters with traces of red diesel in their tanks - see earlier in the thread.

I saw that thanks, but I'm still none the wiser. Perhaps I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective, but fines such as this are usually to deter tax/duty evasion, but I don't see that any offence has been committed on that basis. They're lucky to have a coastline at all, but I don't think I'd say that if stopped (although I have no engine currently so that's unlikely).

 

[bedouin]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Their coastline may be short but they have stopped and fined boats for passing through their territorial waters with traces of red diesel in their tanks - see earlier in the thread.

How can they do that? Don't we have the rights of innocent passage through their waters?

 

[sailorman]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Ok
so how do they The Belgian Plod, treat their own nationals on their rtn, who have been to good ( cheap ) Ole Blighty

 

[Lucky Duck]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

Just boycott Belgium! When their Marina's and restaurants are empty (and not collecting Tax's) - they will soon change their mind. At the moment.... we are still going there and being fined for the pleasure!!
We will NOT be going until this ridiculous bureaucratic mess has been sorted out.

Belgium businesses will suffer but tough luck and frankly it was only ever a handy stop over en route to Dutchland; a big shame if they loose out though, I like Dutchies, very phlegmatic race.

I seem to remember when the last time this all 'kick off' being informed on the ECF that the they were doing quite nicely without us

 

[CLB]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

I seem to remember when the last time this all 'kick off' being informed on the ECF that the they were doing quite nicely without us

To be honest, I think they have probably got used to a significantly reduced income from British boaters. What I am saying is that they have already scared the majority away with previous stories and threats of fines, so are now only mopping up the last few. Don't think this latest case will affect their economy too much.

 

[adamstjohn]

Re: Belgium fines boat with traces of red - June 2017

As in the sticky on this subject above, I couldn't deal with the worry of having red, cleaned the stainless tank 2 yrs ago, changed filters, filled with white, then got boarded this year in Belgium to be told they were not interested in the colour of my diesel, I shall stick to white-we only use 100ltrs or so a year so not really a problem-but it does make you wonder what the agenda really is. Baffling.

 

[Bobc]

http://www.ybw.com/news-from-yachting-boating-world/uk-sailor-fined-for-red-diesel-in-belgium-55746