Reality of family boat ownership and decline of boating

[DownWest]

The Magic of the Swatchways is by the loo here. A world very far from the modern look on yachting.

 

[Greenheart]

Dinghy sailing on my local reservoir is what I'm moving to.

As long as that is what you'll enjoy. I have found dinghy-sailing (not racing) to be challenging and instructive, sometimes satisfying, occasionally quite thrilling, but only in comparison with standing on the shore, dreaming. My own fault for trying to cruise a race-bred boat, but it's rarely relaxing and is routinely frustrating because of all the things a dinghy cannot easily do, which the humblest cabin boat can.

Just getting wetsuited-up and launching a dinghy is a physical task, while the yachtsman steps aboard in shore clothes and makes coffee in the cabin till the rain blows over. Dinghies are cheap and club membership isn't too painful, so get one for the exercise if you actually want one, but don't kid yourself it will substitute for the pleasure of even the most basic yacht cruising.

 

[Wansworth]

The Magic of the Swatchways is by the loo here. A world very far from the modern look on yachting.

........a loaf of bread a string of sausages cooked over a single burner primes stove,milk from a nearby farm,maybe a few eggs,lighting by a flickering candle with the boat listing over waiting for the tide ......adventure on the cheap!

 

[suffolklass]

I think it has an awful lot to do with chartering - if you only have 4 weeks of holiday a year, 2 of which you can give up to a summer holiday, then booking a charter boat in an area where you are pretty much guaranteed good weather and a bigger and more luxurious boat than you'd be able to afford if you have to pay for marinas and maintenance all year becomes very attractive. But what it doesn't give you is the joy of ownership or the freedom of choosing to go out at short notice or the ability to explore the frankly incredible (if a tad cold) sailing grounds around the UK.

We're very lucky as a young family in being a family of teachers (and moreover ones who both like sailing and are used to basic camping holidays), meaning that for us the possibilities with owning a boat are much greater because we have 6 weeks over the summer to do pretty much as we please. So the dial swings in favour of ownership where you don't have to book in advance and pay through the nose just for a single week. You just pay even more through the nose for a whole year instead ;-)

 

[wonkywinch]

I'm pretty new to sailing as I approach retirement looking for a new hobby. I've looked at a lot of You Tub videos, charter holiday websites etc and think it's actually increasing in popularity amongst younger people, although biased towards warm climes where the swim platform and external shower attachment can actually be used and it's possible to see more than a foot through the water.

Firms like Sailing Virgins have a great You Tube presence and really sell sailing to a young generation. I did a coastal skipper course with Hamble School of Yachting and I was by far the oldest on the boat, the youngest two 18 year olds doing comp crew.

 

[Wansworth]

But you miss out on those wonderful damp days in February trying to remove a seized seacock.....

 

[johnalison]

I'm pretty new to sailing as I approach retirement looking for a new hobby. I've looked at a lot of You Tub videos, charter holiday websites etc and think it's actually increasing in popularity amongst younger people, although biased towards warm climes where the swim platform and external shower attachment can actually be used and it's possible to see more than a foot through the water.

Firms like Sailing Virgins have a great You Tube presence and really sell sailing to a young generation. I did a coastal skipper course with Hamble School of Yachting and I was by far the oldest on the boat, the youngest two 18 year olds doing comp crew.

It is clear that sailing, like motoring or watching films, has changed out of recognition in the last twenty years even. Young people have enough money to spend on exotic holidays that we never dreamt of and it is natural that sailing charters would benefit from this. However, I don't see that this kind of holiday quite compares with those who have made sailing a major part of their life. I am sure that Med or Caribbean charter is great fun, but it must miss out on the joy of ownership and the pride sailors taken in getting through a season without cocking things up completely.

We sailed with the children and probably saved something close to the cost of multiple booked holidays, as well as getting numerous weekends. Complete flexibility is another plus for boat ownership. As an example, when our son was taken ill shortly before a cruise, we were able to change our plans and include a brief return for a hospital appointment without losing a penny or suffering any additional anxiety.

I differ from dancrane in that I don't think that you can rank boating activities. Cruising, racing, dinghy-sailing, or canal boating, all have their devotees. I don't consider that I have lost anything by never having crossed an ocean even though I could have enjoyed it, and I don't expect a dinghy sailor to be jealous of my coastal and offshore cruising.

 

[Greenheart]

You may not expect dinghy sailors to envy the range and relaxation available to yacht-owners, John, but the dinghy was all I could afford - I definitely envy you! I've learned to enjoy and admire what the Osprey can do, but no dinghy is really the right boat for a singlehander well past middle-age, who only wanted unstressed cruising - it's too much effort.

Dinghy-sailors are predominantly racers, and I daresay racing provides all they expect and want from that ownership experience. What I said earlier here, was meant to discourage anyone who hopes that downsizing into dinghies will substitute for the cruising yacht they're accustomed to. If they would genuinely give up their car for a bicycle, then the considerable effort, discomfort, special gear required, and the lowly limits of sailing a dinghy, may indeed appeal. But the reason dinghies are a lesser expense, is that they're lesser in general.

 

[maby]

... but it must miss out on the joy of ownership and the pride sailors taken in getting through a season without cocking things up completely.
...

I'll agree with you on that - if I ever experience it!

 

[Babylon]

What's happening 'out there' doesn't really effect me.

I bought my 27 footer twelve years ago and quickly realised that I'd just keep her for the duration. Being a 1982 boat a big part of my fun has been in upgrading her over the years. I've never considered a marina. It took just seven years on a £1,000pa contractor's mooring on the Hamble before I got my own permanent HM pile-mooring for much less money... whereas a marina would cost £6,000pa for a small yacht like mine - mad money which I couldn't afford every year!

My wife when I bought the boat became my ex-wife, and my subsequent woman never really took to it, so I eventually realised that - unless something strange crosses my path - its just me and the dog, and sometimes my son or a chum as cruising crew.

I've no interest in flying to Mediterranean or tropical climes to rent a brochure-boat. The weather in the Channel can be pants but it isn't always so, and I enjoy the sailing and cruising for what it is - sometimes challenging, sometimes beautiful and hugely satisfying.

It helps that I'm self-employed and semi-retired now, which I appreciate isn't everyone's circumstance.

 

[Tomaret]

I used to keep the boat at Hardway before moving to Gosport and found the tidal limitation too restrictive. That is the problem with families, you need to work around commitments. Wicor and GBY both seem expensive for what you get, with there own different restrictions ruling them out.

I kind of know the arrangement I have is already the best I can get, which is why I've kept it for the last 5 years. It's just the best option is no longer looking viable. To be honest I'm surprised no-one in industry has been looking at how they might start reducing prices. We know from other countries eg. France that you can have convenience and lower costs. I can only guess that there are still sufficient profits that utilisation is not yet the biggest concern.

Are you aware that Wicor now has walkashore all tide berths, which I think removes any restrictions. A little further from the Harbour mouth than Gosport, but unless you live in Gosport a lot closer to the major road network. Cheaper too, but I realise that doesn’t make it cheap!

 

[laika]

The Death Of Sailing Predicted thread is a regular here with the supporting argument usually being that a poster's other priorities mean they don't want to spend the cash on it any more so therefore no one else does or someone argues that their "club" membership applications are down.

seems the full results of this survey the rya want you to fill in every year isn't available to non members of the British marine federation but the executive summary doesn't seem to reveal people abandoning boats in droves
https://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollecti...2018-watersports-study-exec-summary-final.pdf

Perhaps it's just that the "sailing demographic" is broadening? 40 years ago how many people sailed whose families had never sailed? Now people like me can think "oh that's something l'd like to do" google sailing courses and learn to sail without an "in" into the community. The older generation here seem to assume joining a club is a given for anyone in yachting but l can't be alone in not wanting to join a club with petty politics, people giving themselves pseudo naval ranks and summer events featuring food I don't eat and music I don't like. I'm possibly peculiar in being an rya member: I doubt many "new" sailors ever see that participation survey. And different people have different priorities A boat isn't something I bought with the spare cash I had left over after buying a house, a car, 2.4 dogs and a nice foreign holiday. I don't have the other things. I did buy a boat.

People don't necessarily do what their parents did any more. Your kids not following in your footsteps doesn't mean there's not a whole other bunch of newcomers whose families had never set foot on a boat.

 

[JumbleDuck]

On the East Coast there seems to be less and less boats on swinging moorings.

I think some move to marina berths which may explain the waiting lists but some just leave sailing.

At Port Bannatyne on the Clyde, where I am based, around half the moorings are now empty and many of these are abandoned. The marina is chock-a-block, and the most likely explanations seems to be that as owners are getting older the attraction of a pontoon grows, so they move into the marina. Another ten years and most will have given up, and it will be interesting to see what happens then.

If the children have gone, the mortgaged paid up and the pension not too bad marinas start to look more appealing. You then need the health but a bloke has to have interests and social contact otherwise it's game over.

I think it depends very much on the usage pattern. I take my boat out, on average, three times per year, so each row to the mooring or back saves me around £400. I can live with that. If I was going on board every week, a marina would be very enticing. Of course berthing arrangements in turn often influence usage, but I am sure I would not use my boat any more if she was in a marina.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The older generation here seem to assume joining a club is a given for anyone in yachting but l can't be alone in not wanting to join a club with petty politics, people giving themselves pseudo naval ranks and summer events featuring food I don't eat and music I don't like.

The very idea of joining a sailing or yacht club gives me the heebie-jeebies, for just the reasons you mention. I have in my time belonged to several gliding clubs (SGU, BGC, YGC), but for the practical reason that it takes a group to launch a glider, not for socialising. No glider club I was ever in called its chairperson "Air Commodore".

 

[Stemar]

It seems to me that there are two kinds of sailing, 36+ footer boats, owned by the rich, chartered by "normal" people who go from marina to marina, and smaller, older boats owned by people on modest incomes, kept on a mooring and pottering around spending weekends in quiet anchorages. Some of the pottering involves things like the Jester challenge, and some of the going from marina to marina involves crossing oceans and, of course, it's nowhere near as clear cut as that.

Being firmly in the pottering camp, I can see older people giving up and selling, others too old or infirm to go out, but refusing to admit it, while their boats quietly rot away, but I also see younger people, 30 - 50 coming in, buying modest boats and having no end of fun - and the joys of those wonderful damp days in February trying to remove a seized seacock. (This week's equivalent for me will be trying to shift the adjustment on my engine mounts that have been sitting untouched in a soggy bilge for the last 10+ years ?).

Some of the charterers will get bitten by the bug and want their own boat. Whether they'll discover the "magic of the swashways" in a MAB, or the joys of marina bills is another matter.

 

[Stemar]

The very idea of joining a sailing or yacht club gives me the heebie-jeebies, for just the reasons you mention. I have in my time belonged to several gliding clubs (SGU, BGC, YGC), but for the practical reason that it takes a group to launch a glider, not for socialising. No glider club I was ever in called its chairperson "Air Commodore".

I've been a member of a club pretty much since I got the boat. A pontoon, the cheapest bar for miles, and someone to give a hand or take a line, plus, after a suitable wait (dead men's mooring buoys), a mooring - what's not to like? I've no interest in the politics; I was co-opted onto the sailing committee one year, but didn't stand for election the next because I was tired of people jockeying for position rather than addressing the problem at hand. I don't race (in a Snapdragon24? ), but it's a good friendly club and I can't imagine not being a member while I still have the boat.

 

[lw395]

....

I differ from dancrane in that I don't think that you can rank boating activities. Cruising, racing, dinghy-sailing, or canal boating, all have their devotees. I don't consider that I have lost anything by never having crossed an ocean even though I could have enjoyed it, and I don't expect a dinghy sailor to be jealous of my coastal and offshore cruising.

I have raced dinghies for half my life, dabbled in racing yachts, cruised my own yachts, worked a little on yachts.
Personally, I have done a couple of ocean crossings and I think I would have lost something if I hadn't, but I have no rush to do any more.
I enjoy pottering in a dinghy or the odd day out motorboating on the Thames, but I don't see these types of boating as something I'd want to do twice a week all Summer. To me it's better to be either racing or going somewhere than just pottering.
I can get afloat and potter about in a kayak, which is at least abit of exercise.

It's funny how all these discussions of the future of the sport are always from a peculiarly narrow British perspective. Maybe sailing is much as it ever was and the UK is changing?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I've been a member of a club pretty much since I got the boat. A pontoon, the cheapest bar for miles, and someone to give a hand or take a line, plus, after a suitable wait (dead men's mooring buoys), a mooring - what's not to like? I've no interest in the politics; I was co-opted onto the sailing committee one year, but didn't stand for election the next because I was tired of people jockeying for position rather than addressing the problem at hand. I don't race (in a Snapdragon24? ), but it's a good friendly club and I can't imagine not being a member while I still have the boat.

If it works for you, you won't hear a word of criticism from me.

 

[JumbleDuck]

It's funny how all these discussions of the future of the sport are always from a peculiarly narrow British perspective.

On British forums used overwhelmingly by British sailors? It's a complete mystery to me.

 

[Stemar]

If it works for you, you won't hear a word of criticism from me.

And if it doesn't work for you, that's fine too.