Rate my plan?

[ross84]

Experience:

Limited really. I've got my DS after doing a two-week intensive in Gib. Might do a refresher week but they're spendy. What I lack in experience I make up for in determination and ability to forgo normal luxuries.

Timeframe:

I have most of Apirl, all of May and half of June free whereafter I work until end of August (online). September to Xmas free.

The boat:

I'm planning on buying something in the 2-3k range, can stretch to 4k. Looking for something solid, small, cheap and preferably with bilge keels (becasue of route through France, better able to explore shallow waters, which I like the idea of, but also because I'll inevitably ground it at some point). Bookmarked a Hurly 20 (bilge with outboard), a Ruster 23 (re-engined inboard), a Hurley 23 (fin and ouboard) and some other things (Elizibethan 29, Samphire 26, A Tident 24 if it's still for sale). Basically, cheap, small, strong and seaworthy seems to the order. Cheap enough that I won't be terrified of sailing it in case I sink my life savings (the long-game would be to buy a Sadler 32 or something like that further down the line). I saw a Vega for 8k, but I'm mosty not confident of my ability and also found it hard to get full-comp insurnace last time I checked. I'd be really anxious about crashing an 8k boat or worse.

The route:

Most boats I'm looking at are in N.Wales, closer to the NW is better but not essential. I'd spend April going on day sails and getting to know the boat, and May doing a longer trip, maybe around Wales/Ireland or the Scillies? I might park it somewhere and then work over the summer. In September I would like to take it either through the french canals or maybe down across Biscay (bit risky but possible?) then into the med or to Canaries. I'll get as far as I can and either sell it or give it away, but bank the experience. By that point I'll know if I want to spend 25-30k on a larger, more livable yacht, and presuambly have the confidence to sail her. I should have Spanish residency in check by then so thankfully I can travel freely in Europe.

Essential equipment:

Autohelm, got GPS and can spend a bit on some useful gadgets but can't afford a winevane and reluctant to buy something that costs more than the boat. I'd presumably have to add some jackstays, a harness, and essential safety equipment (maybe a liferaft in case of Biscay?)

Budget:

Overall, I'd be willing to outlay around 6 all in.

Any helpful suggestions or potential problems? I.e. would be doing the canal route with an outboard be a daft idea? etc. I'm sure there's loads that will go wrong and probably the biggest task is buying a cheap boat that isn't going to start drinking money the moment I buy it. The outboard engines are attractive in this sense at least since they won't cost a fourtune to place, though I understand they can't compare to a solid inboard. In terms of sails etc., I'd be happy if the boat gets me to the Med and can go six months without the big ticket items being replaced. If I'm able to sell it after, I'd just see that as beer money.

I know there are dangers associated it with this plan, but people like Shane Acton and other various budget sailors who took such boats around the world inspire me. I've been wanting to achieve my dream of sailing now for ages and want to get started.

Cheers,
Ross

P.S. Other option is buying in the Med and learning there (better weather and sailing it back! But cheap boats mostly seem to be concentrated in the UK. (Not sure what impact Brexit has on any of this?)

 

[capnsensible]

I'm sure you will get a zillion different opinions on here.....

All I would say is sounds like a fab adventure. Do it and good luck, the highs will beat the lows! ???

 

[TC Tuckton]

Have a look at Dylan Winter's Keep Turning Left series. He has useful points on outboard versus inboard
engines and the pleasure of living on a small boat in foul weather. He has moved from a Mirror Offshore (19') to a Hunter Minstrel (22') to a Westerly Centaur (26') and now uses a Fisher 25 (25' but with a wheelhouse).

 

[seafox67]

Check out these guys on you tube... they are selling their boat which is currently in Cannes! I think they bought it originally from the NW.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Hurley 22 looks good, apart from the engine. It looks like a tatty old 2 stroke which will be expensive in fuel. I don't know why it's on a bracket on the transom though; it should be in a well under the lid to the aft of the cockpit. A Tohatsu 5 or 6hp designed for sailing boats is the replacement engine of choice for that boat, but it will set you back £1200. No sign on an autopilot, so you'll have to budget £370 for that and maybe a couple of hundred on solar panels and new battery to keep it going.

There are a couple of things to look out for on the Hurley 22. Firstly the rudder stock goes through a plain steel tube which corrodes with age and is a pig to get to. Secondly there can be some compression under the mast foot in the deck.

 

[stranded]

Sounds very exciting, good luck. You might want to check the Spanish residency giving you freedom of movement in all EU though - I thought it was just Spain, but might be wrong.

 

[Bajansailor]

I did a search on Yachtworld for boats in the Med with asking prices under GBP 6,000 - as you say, there is not a lot going.

However here is a neat 'little' Jeanneau which popped up with an asking price of GBP 4,446 - they say that she is in Carro, in France - Google maps tells me that this is on a river inland from Nice.
1977 Jeanneau FOLIE DOUCE Sail New and Used Boats for Sale -

You mention that "I saw a Vega for 8k, but I'm mostly not confident of my ability and also found it hard to get full-comp insurance last time I checked. I'd be really anxious about crashing an 8k boat or worse."
Third party liability insurance is the important one to have, re the risk of hitting other boats, and you should be able to get that ok?
Most marinas seem to insist on it now, before they will allow you in.
But it should be cheaper to anchor out in nice bays, rather than going into marinas, and less chance of hitting somebody else at an anchorage, compared to a marina.
And re the lack of fully comp insurance, you can invest some money in good ground tackle for anchoring with.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Go for it.
Just a note on bilge keels in the canals: they can and often do restrict the boat's ability to come alongside as the canals shallow towards shore. In the same vein , they may also restrict you getting out of the way of a peniche while turning you side on as the shore-side keel digs in, particularly in some of the smaller canals.

 

[bdh198]

From what you’ve said, it sounds like an achievable plan and will be an awesome experience. Only suggestion would be to keep things flexible and to be prepared to alter the plan or not go as far as you would have liked if things don’t workout as you have planned. Don’t push it if it doesn’t feel right. Remember, there’s always next season. Things will inevitably go wrong, that’s part of the adventure, and therefore not being too committed to getting somewhere by a particular date and letting the adventure evolve as to go along will help you keep things within your capabilities. Good luck, and make sure keep us updated on here!

 

[LadyInBed]

September is IMO a bit late in the year both for the canals and Biscay.
I've done both and try to start the trips around May. (See my website)
For long trips an inboard is far preferable to an OB.
For the canals you need to have an ICC and a CEVNI (See products | Shop | RYA - Royal Yachting Association )
For Biscay you need to spend a fair bit equipping the boat for the trip.
Your plan rating: 2-4/10, sorry!

 

[nortada]

One of the biggest considerations is crew. Are you planing to sail single handedIf so Biscay in a small boat would be foolhardy and you wouldn’t get insurance.

Forget Shane Acton, he was a one-of Royal Marine Commando with SBS experience‼

Nothing beats experience and given yours, I would buy in the Med or Portugal rather than in the U.K. and then sail south.

The cost in time and cash to get the boat from the U.K. to Southern Europe should form part of your thinking.

If you get residency in an EU state you will have unlimited stay there but only 90 days in any 180 in all other EU states.

Plan rating U.K. - Biscay 0/10, U.K. - Inshore to Med/Portugal 4/10. Buy in Southern Europe 7/10

Don’t listen to Armchair Adventurers or Sofa Sailors.

Finally, you will possibly get a lot more information in Liveaboard Link, where loads of real experience resides..

 

[LittleSister]

I think it's great plan, except you are hugely over-estimating the distance you are likely to cover, and would need to cover to have an 'adventure'. It's not impossible, but highly unlikely, you'll cover that sort ground in your first year (especially in a small, old boat that you have not tried and tested - it will almost certainly need some sorting/fixing; and an outboard powered boat is not best suited to covering great distances). The changes resulting from Brexit are also causing a lot of headaches and uncertainty for cruising around Europe and the Med, and at least some continuing Coronavirus restrictions are likely to be in place for quite a while, too.

I'd say get yourself a boat you like, can afford, is in usable condition, and will be easy to resell, preferably close to where you are based. Then see how it goes. It's easy to get carried away looking at the blue bits on a map, but weather, life, boat gremlins and all sorts will put other temptations and obstacles on your path. That's what makes it an adventure. If you want arrive somewhere in a certain month this particular year, take the train!

You'll have lots and lots of fun and adventures sailing and exploring your local area, and the year will whizz by, I'm sure. Don't try to run before you can walk. When you have the confidence, a crossing such as to Ireland or Isle of Man will give you the feel of how much further you want to go next time, and so on and so forth. I am definitely not saying you couldn't or shouldn't do long trips, but I think you are being a bit unrealistic about the sort of sailing you will get done (or at least get done and enjoy it, rather than being a test of endurance and patience) in the time frame you mention.

You are most unlikely to crash your boat, provided you take care and are sensible. Worry less about losing your savings, and more about losing your life. I am surprised you are unable to obtain insurance beyond third party, at least for your local area and UK coasts.

Your determination and willingness to forego normal luxuries are not a substitute for experience, as you imply, but are a great basis for developing experience. Bear in mind that it is said that experience is what you get just after you needed it!

Good luck. Have a great time, and measure your adventure in smiles, not miles, in your first year.

 

[Laminar Flow]

One of the biggest considerations is crew. Are you planing to sail single handedIf so Biscay in a small boat would be foolhardy and you wouldn’t get insurance.

Forget Shane Acton, he was a one of Royal Marine Commando with SBS experience‼

Nothing beats experience and given yours, I would buy in the Med or Portugal rather than in the U.K. and then sail south.

The cost in time and cash to get the boat from the U.K. to Southern Europe should form part of your thinking.

If you get residency in an EU state you will have unlimited stay there but only 90 days in any 180 in all other EU states.

You will possibly get a lot more information in Liveaboard Link.

Plan rating U.K. - Biscay 0/10, U.K. - Inshore to Med/Portugal 4/10. Buy in Southern Europe 7/10

Don’t listen to Armchair Adventurers or Sofa Sailors.

Insururance for a 3K boat?? Beyond third party liability, which some countries demand, I, frankly, would not bother.

Don’t listen to Armchair Adventurers or Sofa Sailors.

Yes, indeed.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Clausewitz said: no plan survives first contact with the enemy.

First rule: Research.
Second rule: Take your time.
Third rule: Go.

I have been through the canals; we were on a schedule, crossing the Atlantic, hurricane season etc., etc. ... I regret that now. Take your time.

When I did my first major voyage, we were among the youngest doing this (early thirties). On the way people would tell us that when they retire, they will do what we were doing. Those that were retired told us that they should have done it when they were young. Now it was too late.

"The years thunder by. The dreams of youth grow dim where they lie caked in dust on the shelves of patience. Before we know it, the tomb is sealed. " Sterling Hayden.

Experience? You'll get that on the way. Things will go wrong; the only problem is not learning from when they do.

 

[dk]

There’s no such thing as a Hurley 23, but the 22 is a great little boat, as is the 24. Personally, I’d go for a Westerly Centaur or similar. If you’re going through the French canals the most important bit will be a decent engine - diesel not petrol outboard. It’s a long way to go in a few months. It took me 7 weeks from le Havre to Sete, not rushing. Alternatively you could sail down to southern Brittany and then on through the canal du midi. But don’t rush or you’ll miss all the nice places!

 

[38mess]

Good idea
Check out magic carpet sailing on YouTube. They sailed through the canals last summer.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Good idea
Check out magic carpet sailing on YouTube. They sailed through the canals last summer.

They did it in a professionally rebuilt boat (he's a boatbuilder) and were experienced sailors before they started. This couple did it in an unreliable old boat where lots kept going wrong, and the trip across the channel was their first time sailing..

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWP7G7iCLHjJCxWz8VEzTCA/videos?view=0&sort=da

 

[Kelpie]

I would maybe suggest not going straight from day sails to a round Ireland trip. Add a few stepping stones along the way.
In fact it's almost certainly a better use of time and money to put the boat through its paces visiting a few places closer to home, and getting everything on it sorted. You don't have to sail hundreds of miles to learn that the loo or wiring don't work- you just have to spend time living aboard.

 

[bikedaft]

just go for it. doesn't matter where or what happens - it's all part of the fun...

 

[PlanB]

September is IMO a bit late in the year both for the canals and Biscay.
I've done both and try to start the trips around May. (See my website)
For long trips an inboard is far preferable to an OB.
For the canals you need to have an ICC and a CEVNI (See products | Shop | RYA - Royal Yachting Association )
For Biscay you need to spend a fair bit equipping the boat for the trip.
Your plan rating: 2-4/10, sorry!

Biscay insurance as a novice may be a problem and even if you get it, the insurer is likely to require you to be clear of Biscay by the end of September.