raggies

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Rule 9b

Sorry, not trolling at all. But unlike some I do not claim my knowledge is infinite as others seem to claim for themselves and assume for others when it comes to the safety of the waters around them.

In the example I gave, I would not deviate out of the channel unless I knew it to be safe to do so. In the example, I do not know that.

I always give power boats and others the right to proceed unimpeded under power up a channel just as if it was a road. And I am not arrogant enough to expect others to have the same understanding of the waters outside of the channel as I may or may not have or force my own judgements about the safe management of their boats upon them.

Your attitude smacks of those who have no time on the roads for people who may not be as familiar with your own hometown roads as you are yourself - "Get out of my way you wanker, don't you know where you are going" perhaps?

John

 

[hlb]

Re: Rule 9b

To be fair to him. I dont think he's ever been anywhere, or done anything much. Hence the attitude! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Planty]

Re: Rule 9b

But then possibly you have missed the point somewhat of what I think is the main anoyance of MoBoers and small dinghys in "channels" and that is in fact with the trainers or organisers of small dinghy "fleets" that insist on holding such events right across very busy fairways without it seems any thought for other water users.

I am sad to report that my two sons recently took an interest in learning at least the rudiments of sailing so as to enjoy the use of a small Windglider we had purchased and to understand more the limitations of sail. Having raced Merlin Rockets for many years as a lad I was keen for them to take training. We booked them in at a local club on a local river to our mooring and one of the first things they were told was "power gives way to sail". Both lads having attained PB level 2 tried as best they could to educate the educator as to certain times this was not always so but to no avail, quote " No, sorry, simple rule, power gives way to sail". Result 6 other students believe no matter what "power gives way to sail", 2 students (ours) don't complete course?? Also I suspect a modicum of "stuff you, raggie" is now to be overcome by us, they are still only teenagers after all ??

To anyone sad enough to see me farting around on the windglider this weekend trying to rekindle their interet, I sincerely apologise, like a walrus on a lilo!! . (booming good fun though!!!) Paul

 

[tcm]

Re: Rule 9b

high time you booked yourself onto a winter sailing hol to the bvi, paul. Enuf wind so its like having an engine, plus of course, ahem, you have an engine. Your kids are exactly the right age to help out too.

 

[hlb]

Re: Rule 9b

In reality and bringing things to the presant day. Power only gives way to sail in wide expances of sea. Where it really dont matter much and is not so much a case of giving way but much more of a curtisy. Many harbours these days do not allow sailing within there chanels. For good reason. Most of the time we are quite happy to put up with the prats tacking hither and thither across a chanel. But most of the time it's them out of order. Could write reams on coming out of Falmouth or Salcombe on one engine, having been turned in the right direction by the marina tug. Only to be met by some twerp, about ten years old who wants to set off under my bows, in an unknown direction and thinks he's got right of way!! Having sailed yachts and dinghys I'm astounded at there either unwillingness or stupidity. They turn easyly, emmediatly. This might not have been true in the days of the old four masted schooner. But it's time they got real. It's simple to just go the other way!

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Rule 9b

Having sailed dinghies in Salcombe, the biggest problem is that raggies and mobos alike don't realise how nimble they are. The number of times a boat has suddenly come to a standstill, while we were planning on tacking inside him is legion.

Problem is, you can't tell what another boat is planning on doing? There are no univeral signals.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: Rule 9b

There are no universal signals

Remember overhearing while in one port where the entrance was narrow and a pilot was bringing a ship in. He called port control to advise his position and to check if there were any other movements in the port. They responded along the lines that there were alot of small yachts throughout the harbour but to just sound the horn to shoo them all out of the way.

John

 

[BrendanS]

Re: Rule 9b

Pilot on a tanker did that, and lost me a race! Still smarting! GFrrrrr!

 

[hlb]

Re: Rule 9b

Tried all of that. One engine, nearly no stearage. little boys shouted up from there tiny dinghy...Power gives way to sail!!

Yes Salcolmbe!

 

[Planty]

Re: Rule 9b

Don't you start Matt, she's already got her teeth into a "little break in the BVI's, You'd really enjoy it too, 'cos you can charter bare boat!" Even get the monthly e mail updates from Virgin Traders. Just too long on a flight, too expensive and not the right commercial timing, but I will do it. You're right about the lads ythough, but that adds extra costs as serious "Girls" have just appeared on the radar!! Would want a month to really chill though, I think? Do you recommend?? Paul

 

[halcyon]

Re: Rule 9b

Haydn, what channel are you limited to in or out of Falmouth ?

Brian

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Rule 9b

I think you should stick to home waters John until you get a bit more confident.

(Helpful hint if you ever do find yourself in the situation you give: slow down or stop until you have worked out what the daft b ugger in front of you is doing.)

Anyway what would a cat know about boats - useless animals - much prefer dogs. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[gandy]

Re: Rule 9b

[ QUOTE ]
So you sat in yer wayfarer. Is going to dictate the passage plans of sea going Ym's etc. QE2's and the rest of us!! God save our souls! confused confused

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure of your point here, hlb. If you mean that a small boat sailor is unlikely to understand the contraints on a much larger craft, so should assume the worst, then I'll happily agree.

If you mean that vessels below a certain size don't count, then I am glad to find that most mariners disagree with you. How big does a boat need to be before you consider that the rules apply?

Tony S

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Rule 9b

I think you are reading in to my posts something I didnt say - I don't come from the dinghy angle (gave up getting wet years ago) and I have cursed my way through racing fleets often.

It's all about using rules in conjunction with each other. Just as "power gives way to sail" isn't an all embracing trump card and any raggie who says so is dangerous, "not impeding a power vessel in a channel" isn't an all embracing trump card for mobos to do what they want in a channel. Too many people get bogged down in specifics instead of looking at the broader picture.

...and as for putting a cat on the helm and letting him run down boats..... /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[fireball]

Re: Rule 9b

I don't see how you intend the racing fleet to not use the whole channel?
Part of the run of racing is using different strategies to gain that extra boat length over the others - if you going with the tide then it is usual to tack across the main flow of water - getting best advantage of the tide. If going against the tide then we normally get into the shallows where there is less effect.

As I said - why should YOU as a power vessel assume un-interupted passage through that channel? - do you expect other users to flee at the sight of your bows? What if you were racing - would you expect a standon vessel to get out of your way?

In the main - where I sail (in harbour) there is plenty of room for power vessels to turn round, slow down, go in reverse or just plain get out of my way - even within the channels. I know the depth cos I've turned my boat upside down in most parts of the harbour.

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Rule 9b

Fireball - I think you meant that answer for someone else? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[tcm]

Re: Rule 9b

Well, no, this is the point, they should not "get out of your way". Not my rules, but a power vessel over 20m confined to a narrow channel should not be impeded as per rule 9b.

This may explain why larger daytripper boats seem to "do what they like" but in fact, they should not be impeded. Of course, they don't usually run dingies or anyone else down, but that's because other rules come into play which mean they must avoid collisions.

 

[fireball]

Re: Rule 9b

Sorry - I view in flat mode ... so just chucked in my two pence worth!

 

[fireball]

Re: Rule 9b

I don't come across many +20m boats in Chichester Harbour!

I do find that a "Hold your Course" call if the skipper of the other vessel is looking worried helps .... or a - "Just keep going - you don't want to go where I'm going - its far to shallow for you!" when talking to the Dufour 40 that decided to drop its mainsail right in my path on Sunday ....

 

[Planty]

Re: Rule 9b

Don't know, but seems "racing is all" is the point you make. Damn every other water users enjoyment as long as it doesn't affect "the race". I have raced and safety was always paramount not the gaining of a boat length over the other chap.

Personality and a competitive nature is what dictates "the race is all". Not something to best use as your advisor I might suggest? "Can't you see I'm racing?" so what?? Be safe!!

How do you, or more importantly a 13yr old dinghy skipper, know how fast a 45' mobo can stop, turn around, etc. at any speed?? If its mine the turning circle is about 90 - 120', others far less, mine on EDC's crash stop, (blooming uncomfortable) 45' at least. Thus always proceeding very slowly whenever in a channel, but impossible for you or anybody else to know my or your limitations so safety dictates you exercise equal caution. The race is not all!!

Simple common sense would seem to imply that in any channel all water users exercise utmost caution and consideration, hence my point organising racing of any kind across a busy channel displays neither caution or consideration thus foolhardy at least. The odd small dinghy enjoying a sail is little problem to most they are generally on a single heading and unlikely to change course therfore relatively predictable. Racing on the other hand is absolutely not predicatable (the very antithesis actually) so just plain stupid in these conditions. And to teach youngsters that all is well, the sailor has right of way is plain madness, yet acceptable apparently??

Not as well versed as others in the verbatim ColRegs but isn't the whole point it is everybodies prime objective safety. Tacking anywhere near 15 tonne of vessel whether underway or stationary is foolhardy. How do you know what windage, drift etc is affecting the other vessel and if you are underway in a dinghy at that point you put yourself in danger do you not?
All IMHO of course. Paul