raggies

[BarryH]

All very interesting reading all this. But people are missing the point. Its got nothing to do with being either a raggy or a mobo type persons. These people are [no thanks] and moaners in whatever thet are doing in life.

I have to work with some of themas customers. A decent person is a decent person. A moaning twat will always be a moaning twat!

 

[Lakesailor]

I reckon that's what I said. I don't think we are under any illusion that you can't please some people.
It's how you relate to them that matters.
If I think someon'e's worth the effort, I make it. If they aren't; I have better things to do with my time.

 

[duncan]

well put.

I also think that there are some areas that cause particular issues - those with a speed limit for safety but not no wash, and these can include moorings due to 'demand'.

Poole harbour is such an area where there are 10knot safety limits on the major channels but many 6knot (max) or lower no wake zones.

The former cause a problem as most smaller boats cause some wake at 10 knots which upsets boats on the moorings beside the channel; the latter because people in 5metre boats will slow to 6knots and still make a big wake when people have moved off their moorings to a designated quiet area. replacing the big 6 signs for NO WAKE (max 6) might help educate.

Please note I am not advocating a right for vessels to make a big wake at under 10knots regardless - safety remains a responsibility but generally it's comfort factors that are being discussed here. Worst wash I have seen, excluding the Condor on a bad day, is the comercial sector including Police on normal patrol.

 

[DIW]

Hear, Hear
The wash in Gosport Marina can be severe at times and unsafe if standing on the end of a pontoon. Who causes the most problems ? not the Continental Ferries, not Her Majesty's Ships, not the Gosport Ferry, the bl--dy Fisherman who hurtle through the Channels at ridiculous speeds and being mainly displacement craft generate a huge wake. Do they do it on purpose ? Guess the answer has to be yes to upset the weekend 'sailors'.

 

[jerryat]

Hi Mike,

Afraid you've got entirely the wrong of the stick!!! I never suggested anywhere that the mobos should move out of the channel, but that there WAS plenty of room. My complaint was that these idiots should simply proceed in accordance with the speed limits. Had they done that, there would have been no problem at all and they, or the dinghies could have easily altered course a touch to avoid each other.

As it was, there were a couple of 'crash' stops and a lot of shouting, altogether a superb demonstration of incompetence!!

If sensible behaviour p**ses you off, please stay away from our part of the country!!

Cheers Jerry

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Stinkies!!

Well I had a first this weekend gone....I was shouted at to slow down by a stinky!!! Well would you believe it /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

There I was on the approach to Samson's Bay, which recently had its speed limit changed from open, to 6kts. Now, just to position this, Samson's has always been a watersports venue, but that was changed by the HM, which is fair do's when busy. But Friday wasn't busy and I came in at 15kts. Next thing, this woman is frantically waving her arms about all over the place. I thought she had trouble with her boat and so stopped along side, only to be reprimanded for my speed.

Well - was I indignant!!!

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Hi Jerry,

Last year we had exactly the same thing with Jetskiers. We were sat on our boat having lunch and drinkies when a trio of these jetskis came up the channel at walking pace. They mooched around the inner harbour and then left at the same speed. Amazing! And we also gave them a good wave and a thankyou.

 

[Forbsie]

Re: Stinkies!!

I was having a cup of tea on the boat yesterday and this new arrival is trying to moor at the back of our trots. He didn't have a boat hook, so needed assistance from the boathouse staff. When I spoke to the boathouse later it turns out that this guy just bought the boat on Friday and was already banned from the non-tidal Thames for speeding and creating excess wash. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Wash and miserable whining gits!

Sorry if this thread was being allowed to die, I have only just read it and it has been fascinating.

For those skippers who have been moaned at by miserable yachties on moorings etc. It is almost certainly not you. I have been driven to absolute frustration by fast boats bouncing me around when I am trying to enjoy a peaceful weekend for example. You may have been the umpteenth boat to pass them that hour, they are seeing red and regardless of your well mannered approach they are going to accuse you anyhow. Like the platform guard is blamed for the train cancellation.

It is not right, but I can see why some might be driven to shouting. The only time I have shouted at a MOBO was when an Antaries (the green windowed things) turned at high speed in front of my moorings. I saw a 2ft wall of water approaching me, luckily it hit us bows on so not too uncomfortable, but the boat next to us, a 24 ft hunter I think, had they been on board I really think we could have been talking injuries even MOB!

The MOBO was not to know the boat was empty, it shouldn't matter. I just got the finger as they carried on at full pelt.

Mike, with regards tacking in channels, I agree that it is bad behaviour from yachts and even if I could would not do it. Catamarans do not tack very well in narrow channels. But most dinghies do not carry engines, it leaves them very little choice but to tack. As I am under propulsion, like you it winds me up, but there is very little choice for them but to tack up the channels when the wind, as invariably it will be, is on their nose.

From experience, most dinghy sailors will be skilled enough to work with you, i.e. if you keep a constant course at reasonable speed they will sail around you, they are very agile as boats go. Though I can maintain control from 0.5 kts, from reading on here many MOBO's would struggle at less than 4.

Racing across channels - There is no excuse for this IMHO!

It is very refreshing to read this thread, no one has gone into a slanging match, maybe, just maybe things are improving in the relations department.

 

[Mike21]

[ QUOTE ]
Incidentally, this is not a restricted channel (except towards low water) so there is plenty of room outside the channel where safe passage could be had for such shallow draft boats. The sailing boats, both cruisers and dinghies use the whole width of the river as far as draft allows.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure if I did get the wrong end of the stick.

Holding races, or teaching kids to sail across a channel, doesn't seem particularly sensible to me

 

[Mike21]

Re: Wash and miserable whining gits!

One or two dinghies are not normally a problem, it's a fleet of them racing across that normally p's me off, also the yachts that tack across, in very little wind, or decide to have their adhoc race round the channel markers.

Having seen yachts sailing straight up a channel with others tacking across, makes you wonder

But I digress why oh why did you put
[ QUOTE ]
It is very refreshing to read this thread, no one has gone into a slanging match, maybe, just maybe things are improving in the relations department.

[/ QUOTE ]
We were hoping people didn't notice /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: Wash and miserable whining gits!

[ QUOTE ]


Having seen yachts sailing straight up a channel with others tacking across, makes you wonder



[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps the ones sailing up the channel are running with the wind and those tacking are actually sailing down the channel against the wind. Sometimes you make very little progress like that, if there was a bit of current against them as well they would probably be going backwards.

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Re: Wash and miserable whining gits!

Irrelevent really. I think its rule 19 or summink that says that when navigating a narrow channel, you have right of way - always

Might be wrong on the rule no but not the rule.

 

[Mike21]

Re: Wash and miserable whining gits!

Nope both going same direction.

Well nearly /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: Wash and miserable whining gits!

[ QUOTE ]
Irrelevent really. I think its rule 19 or summink that says that when navigating a narrow channel, you have right of way - always

Might be wrong on the rule no but not the rule.

[/ QUOTE ]
Seems to be Rule 9 " ..... forbids ships to cross a narrow channel or fairway "if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway." The meaning "not to impede" was classified by an amendment to Rule 8 in 1987. A new paragraph (f) was added, stressing that a vessel which was required not to impede the passage of another vessel should take early action to allow sufficient sea room for the safe passage of the other vessel. Such vessel was obliged to fulfil this obligation also when taking avoiding action in accordance with the steering and sailing rules when risk of collision exists."

and Rule 18 b

"A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

(i)a vessel not under command;

(ii)a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre;

(iii)a vessel engaged in fishing. "

.......cover that. I agree.
But I was only surmising why they may be on apparently different points of sail, not why they should be there.
In fact it appears from the rules that they are entitled to be there, but must not impede the passage the vessel which is constrained by the channel.

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: Wash and miserable whining gits!

Does make you wonder. Wind shifts? Some point up better?

 

[tcm]

Re: Kangeroo Court Summary and Verdict

Hm. I note you don't say how fast you were going, either from the gps nor from log.

BUT in my experience people have much better things to do than to shout at boats going as slow as you claim - "almost stopped" is 2 knots or less. It is also worth noting that you yourself admit that you ar not "in recency" - it is some months since you last drove the boat, and further that your trip was hurried - you needed to return before nightfall.

Your claim that you are amongst the most considerate of boaters is patently not entirely true, is it? - otherwise you would be attentive to their feelings at least, and you might also consider yourself to sometimes, perhaps, be in the wrong? Perhaps?

A side issue, although rather worse, is that you (in your powerboat) have headed the post "raggies". This is really quite off, imho. You have attributed a negative aspect of one member of a group (raggies) to ALL members of the group- and THIS is the very essence of racism, i'm afraid. You could easily have made other specious judgments of the shouter with regard to other groupings to which he belonged - leftie or tory, fat or thin, old or young, male or female, black or white skinned, and this isn't always acceptable. In fact, it often is very unacceptable or illegal. This is a side issue, but worth consideration.

The shock verdict of the Kangeroo Court which you tacitly approached for support with the flimsiest of cases and zero supporting evidence is that it finds AGAINST you.

 

[tcm]

Rule 9b

specifically forbids vessels under 20m to impede. Fun, but useless - almost nobody in a sailing boat knows that must not impede a large powered vessel constrained to a narrow channel.

 

[l'escargot]

Re: Rule 9b

[ QUOTE ]
specifically forbids vessels under 20m to impede. Fun, but useless - almost nobody in a sailing boat knows that must not impede a large powered vessel constrained to a narrow channel.

[/ QUOTE ]

... and also almost nobody in a power boat knows that just because they want to go down the channel doesn't mean they are necessarily constrained by draught - foot for foot a lot of sailing boats will draw more than the equivalent size power boat /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[tcm]

Re: Rule 9b

there's no requirement for the bigger vesel to be constrained "by draft" - merely to be constrained to the channel for safety. Which they are. So, sailing boats under 20m shouldn't impede big powerboats over 20m. Awful, eh?