Radar reflection

[jimi]

On the basis that during the war chaff ie strips of aluminium were dropped to cause a big echo and blind the enemy radar. If christmas tinsel were wrapped around a length of rope and hoisted would this not be a supremely good radar reflector?

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[longjohnsadler]

Re: On reflection

Wouldn't you have to take it down on twelfth night?

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[jimi]

Re: On reflection

Suppose it could be dual purpose .. but if you had a four of 30 foot lengths made up and ran it up fore and aft and on each beam, sure it would make you very visble on radar?

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[longjohnsadler]

Re: On reflection

...as well as looking a complete plonker.
What next? Christmas lights on the X-trees, a fairy up the mast, Roman Candles to alert the CG?
Seriously (?) its possibly too wispy and insubstantial. It would be a brave man to try it first...
I've heard that a container full of bacofoil hoisted aloft is more effective than many proprietary refelectors.

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[Neraida]

Re: On reflection

Beach Ball, small incision, stuff full of bacofoil, superglue back together.

Excellent emergency reflector, makes a blip the size of your hat!

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[StugeronSteve]

Re: On reflection

Hmm... Do you leave the turkey in the Bacofoil? or might this cause the oncoming vessel to mistake you for a giant seagull. I wonder what sort of image (radar rather than style) flying metallized streamers from the flag halyards would create.
I've often thought that a set of metallic sails would make good radar reflectors, a metal thread could be included in the sailcloth weave but it would probably break down far too fast.

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[longjohnsadler]

Re: On reflection

A blip the size of one of those Christmas Hats?

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[Neraida]

Re: On reflection

Yup, one of those blip shaped xmas hats, you know the ones, with the little bells...

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[longjohnsadler]

Re: On reflection

Just because you've got your picture in the latest copy of YM, there's no need to take the p#ss. This is a serious thread.
Suggest you cut down on the Stugeron.

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[longjohnsadler]

Re: On reflection

Jimi's gone a bit quiet.
Probably stuck in 'is Christmas 'ammock

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[jimi]

Re: On reflection

Distressed the way this threads going .. really .. post a serious question and it just gets hijacked .. anyway I think its a serious point .. mind you eeven if your seen some of these bluidy tankers only give you 2 cables when there'an error of 7. Maybe best to go in stealth mode and then you only need to worry about what you're doing and don't need to double guess the ship .. has h seen me or has'nt he?

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[StugeronSteve]

Re: On reflection

Nah... No need for it at the moment and I think that may be the problem. Getting a bit land loopy. Still it's off to the boat next week, anyone else thinking of having a Solent blast 17th/18th? No offence or extraction of fluids intended and I really did wonder about the practicality of metallized sails once upon a time.

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[jimi]

Re: On reflection

I'd go for stainless steel sails as they'd last longer, however the effect on the stix ratio may be adverse ... perhaps a cantilevered mast is the answer?

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[Gunfleet]

Only if the ships looking out for you mounted 88mm guns manned by Volksturm and were expecting Omar Bradley and his men at any minute. Any more mad ideas?

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[BrendanS]

The echo effect was because the strips formed a big cloud of little bits, rather than a little string of tinsel. So what is needed is a modified flare gun, that instead of firing a rocket, fires the chaff up into the air. I reckon what's needed is an airball type affair firing little balls of tinsel, which expand, and you can scattergun lots of little expanding balls right at oncoming ships in a very short period of time

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[Twister_Ken]

Commercial secret

Damn, you've just revealed what's inside the average £199.99 radar reflector, on sale at a swindlery near you. (P&P extra)

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[Sybarite]

Seriously (for once) I always thought it would be a good idea to equip rafts with a large kite, either made of foil or with a foil tail, which could both tow the raft and act as a radar beacon.

John

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[Talbot]

Re: On reflection

This solution would not only make you look a real plonker, but would be useless. The tinsel has to be the same length as the wavelength of the radar, and has to create a cloud of the same size as the required radar return (i.e. at least 10 sq metres). I suppose you could come up with some device that is held up by a helium balloon, but the right angle reflector (as used in the old fashioned water catcher style radar reflector) is still the best way of doing this. The better modern reflectors are merely tubes containing more right angle reflectors.
There is another technology that can be used (luneberg lens) as used in the "visiballs" , but they need to be lined up carefully with the radar to be reflected, are particularly unsuitable for yachts, and cannot hope to have the same all round performance of the rt angle reflectors.

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[MainlySteam]

Re: On reflection

Really is distressing - all you have attracted are a bunch of thread hijackers and knockers. Well, I, at least, have taken you seriously and as my wife and I will be setting off for a couple of weeks on the boat next week I thought I would give the idea a try.

So went shopping today (while all the grumbly ones over your way were in bed) and bought 100 m of Christmas Tinsel to use for a trial. Was a big clearance of it so I was able to get that plus a nice tinsel Christmas Tree Fairy for just $12.50 (only about 5 pounds!!!!). Made me real happy to get such a bargain /forums/images/icons/smile.gif/forums/images/icons/smile.gif/forums/images/icons/smile.gif and I can get tons more for anyone who wants some/forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

This afternoon I have wrapped two strings of tinsel around each shroud and the back stay right from the deck to the top of the mast. Couldn't work out how to do the forestay though because of the furling genoa, but these sailmakers are real clever and had obviously thought of this before. Do you know what? Hidden in the leech of the genoa was a long piece of string as a mouse going all the way up already for pulling tinsel through - so was easy in the end, just pulled the tinsel through with that and rolled the string into a little ball to keep it out of the way.

While wifey had me at the top of the mast I skewered the fairy onto the vhf antenna and we are now all set to ask all the ships we see how we look on their radars - I bet we will make a real big impression!

Am a bit worried in case the fairy is of a sort of contradictory nature to radar and might stuff the experiment up, but we'll see I am sure. Maybe someone has some views on this but I don't really want wifey to hoist me to the mast top again 'cause she always has a worrying look in her eyes when about to do so (worrying for me that is /forums/images/icons/frown.gif).

Will report back in a couple of weeks on this. Wonderful idea, I am sure it will work.

John
Be Safe, Be Seen

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[jimi]

Re: On reflection

Utter rubbish .. all you need is a surface(s) that will reflect the waves so if I've got 4 10m lengths of thick tinsel then I've got2 square metres of reflective surface in any direction at a height which should provide a brilliant echo ..

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..