Qualifications for boaters.

[southseaian]

Maybe now the economy is recovering it is time the Government took a look at introducing mandatory qualifications for for boat users. Some European countries do. Even the easy going Greeks ask for an ICC or RYA Day Skipper when chattering. This is checked by Port Police too.
Sailing around much of the Med is more straight forward than say the Solent.
I for one would support a MCA run scheme to qualify users of yachts, RIBs and power boats.
It's almost farcical that someone can buy a fast or difficult to sail boat and put to sea.
The RYA seems to be dumbing down its "qualifications" maybe making certificates easy to obtain to further it's commercial activities.

 

[maby]

hmmm, hope you have your asbestos undies on! As it happens, I would not disagree with you, but I'm anticipating howls of protest from most contributors here!

 

[jordanbasset]

Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability, but suspect your idea will not meet with 100% approval here

 

[southseaian]

So am I, must be in provocative mood,,,,,!

 

[Serin]

Introducing mandatory qualifications would entail a great deal of extra cost for leisure sailors, a new system of regulation and enforcement and many other complications.

So it's not really something that should be considered just "because other countries do it" or because it "seems like a good idea". Legislation is all too often based on the notion that "something ought to be done" rather than a clear definition of the outcomes intended and consideration of whether they are likely to be achieved. I suggest that there would need to be good evidence that certain and significant benefits in terms of safety etc. would result from the change. One benefit we could be sure of, I suppose, would be increased business for the training establishments. But do we have actual evidence of desirable outcomes and that the benefits would justify the costs?

Perhaps we do. If so, I would be interested to see it.

Incidentally, I have no personal interest. As a former "professional" sailor, I have certificates coming out of my ears!

 

[GHA]

So am I, must be in provocative mood,,,,,!

Where is the problem which needs to be solved?

 

[maby]

Where is the problem which needs to be solved?

How about power boats running at high speeds in narrow channels for starters?

 

[Tranona]

How about power boats running at high speeds in narrow channels for starters?

And how is having a licence going to prevent that any more than it prevents people (motorcyclists, BMW drivers - pick your hate group) from speeding on public roads?
Creating an offence is the first step then detection and enforcement - how are you going to do that?

 

[RupertW]

How about power boats running at high speeds in narrow channels for starters?

Only time I've ever known that to cause a fatality local to me was in Croatia where the mobo skipper was qualified as it is mandatory there.

You would have to have some evidence that passing a qualification would make enough difference on enough occasions for the bureacracy and the wasted effort on all those who use boats without qualifications and do no harm.

 

[GHA]

How about power boats running at high speeds in narrow channels for starters?

Any evidence from other countries that any kind of compulsory licencing will actually make any difference?

Nope, the UK has a very good record for safety and competency in boats compared with data from compulsory licencing areas, why change something which won't help?

 

[maby]

And how is having a licence going to prevent that any more than it prevents people (motorcyclists, BMW drivers - pick your hate group) from speeding on public roads?
Creating an offence is the first step then detection and enforcement - how are you going to do that?

Oh, I agree that any requirement for qualifications would be impossible to enforce - I was responding to the question about whether or not there is a problem that could usefully be solved.

 

[jac]

How about power boats running at high speeds in narrow channels for starters?

Definite proof that it is happening now and that training will fix it?

I'm more worried about the lack of knowledge about IRPCS than other stuff. For example a recent thread where someone suggested that although they were standon boat they should give way as were a leisure boat and the give way boat was working.

Training won't tackle idiots - people still speed in town and past schools but might do something to tackle those who don't even know they are in the wrong.

 

[Davegriff]

You mention the relative ease of sailing around the Med compared to the Solent (which of course, some would argue), but it would be interesting to see some real proof of the value or otherwise of enforced qualifications, such as the accident/injury/death rates between countries with and without them.

 

[Tranona]

Where is the problem which needs to be solved?

+1

Little to suggest that a problem exists. All the bodies interested in the matter do not support any form of compulsory licencing, and just like the drink/boating proposals would fail any test of appropriateness for lack of evidence of any significant problem. Well remember the humiliation "enjoyed" by the minister when he failed to produce any real evidence that drinking and boating cause accidents. Can't imagine any politician wanting to do that again.

 

[Tranona]

Oh, I agree that any requirement for qualifications would be impossible to enforce - I was responding to the question about whether or not there is a problem that could usefully be solved.

It is not the qualification that is difficult to enforce - that is easy, it is the assumption that possession of a qualification would reduce the incidence of speeding.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I think the real benefits would accrue to sea schools, trainers and examiners (ker-ching) but not to the average Jo(e) on the tiller.

 

[maby]

You mention the relative ease of sailing around the Med compared to the Solent (which of course, some would argue), but it would be interesting to see some real proof of the value or otherwise of enforced qualifications, such as the accident/injury/death rates between countries with and without them.

In much the same way as is the case for car use, the qualifications don't really contribute very much - they support the issuing of licences that can be withdrawn in response to poor behaviour. I'm not arguing for the introduction of either compulsory qualifications, or compulsory licences - mostly on the grounds that any such scheme would be completely unenforceable. We have a large inland police force, but there are still quite a few unlicensed drivers on the road. However, if it were enforceable, I would probably be in favour of it.

 

[bigwow]

Perhaps this thread is a PR exercise to drum up business?

 

[maby]

It is not the qualification that is difficult to enforce - that is easy, it is the assumption that possession of a qualification would reduce the incidence of speeding.

I think that the qualification would be extremely difficult to enforce - in the absence of a water police force of a scale that we could not possibly fund.

 

[maby]

Perhaps this thread is a PR exercise to drum up business?

No, it is a valid question. Where else are you permitted to buy a large, powerful vehicle costing hundreds of thousands of pounds and take it out with no qualifications or insurance? The real issue is enforceability and I agree that can never happen.