Qualifications for boaters.

[pmagowan]

Bottom line is; There is no significant problem.
This 'solution' to a problem that doesn't exist does not solve the percieved problem.

So the reason why we do not have enforced qualifications for recreational boating is the same reason we don't have enforced qualifications for walking down the street, gardening, cooking, ironing etc. It would be an expensive waste of time that would aggrivate citizens going about their lawful and reasonable activities.

 

[GHA]

The real issue is enforceability and I agree that can never happen.

The real issue is that there isn't actually any evidence which suggests compulsory education makes any difference.

 

[pmagowan]

No, it is a valid question. Where else are you permitted to buy a large, powerful vehicle costing hundreds of thousands of pounds and take it out with no qualifications or insurance? The real issue is enforceability and I agree that can never happen.

Any private land for which you have the land owners permission.

 

[maby]

The real issue is that there isn't actually any evidence which suggests compulsory education makes any difference.

Absolutely correct - it's the compulsory licence that can be withdrawn that makes the difference on the roads. But that does, of course, assume the presence of a police force that can see you misbehaving, stop you and ask to see your licence.

Anyway, I'm in danger of backing myself into a corner here on a thread that I didn't start! Irrespective of whether or not compulsory qualifications or licensing would do anything useful, they are not going to happen simply because no government is going to fund an army of maritime police that would be necessary to enforce them.

 

[Sybarite]

Oh, I agree that any requirement for qualifications would be impossible to enforce - I was responding to the question about whether or not there is a problem that could usefully be solved.

It wouldn't be impossible but it would mean creating a data base of boaters. When you have that, the door is open to introducing boating taxes.

 

[Serin]

In much the same way as is the case for car use, the qualifications don't really contribute very much - they support the issuing of licences that can be withdrawn in response to poor behaviour.

That raises another question - do the countries that require training ever actually "withdraw the licence" in response to bad behaviour. That's not something I have ever heard of, but maybe it happens. Certainly it can happen with commercial seafarers, but leisure sailors as well? Enforcement would have to include the effective regulation of licences. It's an awful lot of bureaucracy - to achieve....what?

We already have bye-laws in most harbours, often involving speed limits, consideration for other water users etc. and these can be enforced by harbour masters, river wardens, marine police etc. but it isn't easy to do. There have to be witnesses, due processes, evidence etc. I can't see that mandatory training would add much to the existing system, but it would complicate it still further.

 

[pmagowan]

Some of this thread is like listening in on a civil service brainstorming day. What do we want? More paperwork! When do we want it? Now! You can regulate away probelms that don't exist until you are blue in the face.

 

[awol]

Any private land for which you have the land owners permission.

But kill someone and you can be done for dangerous driving as the couple in Turriff found out.

 

[rptb1]

Maybe now the economy is recovering it is time the Government took a look at introducing mandatory qualifications for for boat users.

Why?

Or to put it another way, what measurable goals would this have? Are you trying to save lives, reduce costs, stimulate the economy, create jobs, increase general happiness, or (more likely) increase the blood pressure of forumites?

 

[chrishelen]

As a professional skipper I think the standard of 'Amateur' boaters I come across in my day to day business is on the whole very good. Yachties and motorboaters seem to know their stuff and seem to enjoy being out on the water.
Leave well alone is my feeling on this matter.

 

[Davy_S]

Even the easy going Greeks ask for an ICC or RYA Day Skipper when chattering. This is checked by Port Police too.

This is Not always the case! also any tourist or Greek can take a small boat out to sea provided the engine does not exceed 30HP. so no regulations there then! you need no qualifications for chattering!

 

[bobgarrett]

Seeing the lack of skills some show I would once have agreed this was worth looking at. However, the more I travel to other countries, including those with such mandatory certification, the more I realise it makes no difference; and might even be negative as it can make some assume "I have the certificate so I having nothing more to learn". So I would be against it.

 

[pmagowan]

But kill someone and you can be done for dangerous driving as the couple in Turriff found out.

As you can be done in a boat.

 

[Serin]

A

Anyway, I'm in danger of backing myself into a corner here on a thread that I didn't start! Irrespective of whether or not compulsory qualifications or licensing would do anything useful, they are not going to happen simply because no government is going to fund an army of maritime police that would be necessary to enforce them.

This is one of those "groundhog" threads that recur frequently and have done for many years. What I never see on such threads, though, is any attempt by the OPs and those brave souls who take a similar view to respond coherently to the questions raised by other posters or, indeed, discuss the issue at all. This thread is no exception.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

The RYA have looked into this and did some research which suggested that voluntary training led to more training and to a higher quality. Compulsory training risked setting a minimum acceptable level which would establish a stop point and may limit further voluntary training, compared to the current situation. There concerns that the standard of the compulsory training would also be set a broad level and as such would be lower than say day skipper, which is considered a reasonable entry level for new skippers.

I do not believe that the RYA training is dumbed down, it has evolved to address the needs of sailing as technology has changed with emphasis on relevant skills as opposed to focusing on skills that are really no longer practised. As far as I am concerned that is the sign of a healthy approach to training.

We have it good in the UK. It is a freedom; we can get into a yacht sail around the world and land again on Old Blighty without the need for a compulsory licence. Long may that continue.

That's how I see it.

 

[GrahamM376]

Any evidence from other countries that any kind of compulsory licencing will actually make any difference?

Not in my experience in Portugal & Spain. Power boat drivers seem to have no idea that they're responsible for any damage caused by their wake and that applies to the Spanish customs boats as well. Seems to be a sport getting as close to laden dinghies as possible at high speed and using moored boats as a slalom course.

 

[Davy_S]

Not in my experience in Portugal & Spain. Power boat drivers seem to have no idea that they're responsible for any damage caused by their wake and that applies to the Spanish customs boats as well. Seems to be a sport getting as close to laden dinghies as possible at high speed and using moored boats as a slalom course.

I see quite a lot of Italian trailer boats at this time of year, they have arrived by ferry, most are ribs with big motors, I was always under the impression that they had to have some form of licencing, but not sure. Some, (not all) have a complete disregard of speed in harbours and inside buoyed swimming areas (big fines) if they are caught. They have no idea how to anchor, if indeed they carry one! they will simply tie up to any boat they chose, or tie to the quayside and simply drop the hook over the stern. they seem to have no pride in looking after their boat or anyone elses.
Forced qualifications will never work, a ******** will always be one, ticket or not!

 

[bigwow]

No, it is a valid question. Where else are you permitted to buy a large, powerful vehicle costing hundreds of thousands of pounds and take it out with no qualifications or insurance? The real issue is enforceability and I agree that can never happen.

I was commenting on the fact the OP appears to be involved with training :encouragement:

 

[ip485]

Please, never regulate where there is no evidence regulation is required - we have enough regulation as it is. If regulation were ever contemplated a full regulatory assessment should be the first step, and the assessment should demonstrate that regulation is required, that it is likely to be effective and that it can be enforced. If all of those criteria arent meant then it is utterly pointless and should fail before it ever comes before Parliament. It seems to me there is little doubt that it would be impossible to prove a regulatory argument so the OP is, with respect, out of touch.

 

[Ripster]

As others have said, I have seen this question come up time and again on here and the same answers and conclusions are stated. There is not a problem to solve, regulating won't make people safer, experience from counties that do it proves that and no-one wants it or its associated hassles and costs (unless they have vested interest).