PYH doubling fees for liveaboards

[Mataji]

As the other thread has wandered off to other places I decided to restart here. I’ve been speaking to a live aboard affected by this. Those who have been there for over 7 years seem to be OK. Others have been told that they can stay but annual fees will be doubled.

 

[Sandy]

As the other thread has wandered off to other places I decided to restart here. I’ve been speaking to a live aboard affected by this. Those who have been there for over 7 years seem to be OK. Others have been told that they can stay but annual fees will be doubled.

Sounds a logical move. I understand that many landlords move their tenants on ever few years. Perhaps with the increase in summer trade being open as a marina will be more profitable.

 

[rotrax]

A Liveaboard berth in NZ is about 50% more expensive than a mooring only berth.

At both Evans Bay Marina and Seaview Marina more than 4 consecutive nights aboard is a no-no unless you have a specified Liveaboard berth.

 

[duncan_m]

I've been to most of the UK marinas from Ipswich to Plymouth while we were prepping for our big sail.

Most didn't care about liveaboards but none really had the community that pyh did.

Also most that had winter deals didn't really mind or looked the other way for ppl onboard over winter. During the summer we just anchored around.

Posted long post on the other thread but it may or may not be a coincidence that most, but not all, of the liveaboards in the under 7 years group are young (relative to the other owners).

 

[Yealm]

As the other thread has wandered off to other places I decided to restart here. I’ve been speaking to a live aboard affected by this. Those who have been there for over 7 years seem to be OK. Others have been told that they can stay but annual fees will be doubled.

Wow so about 10K a year !
If one's a liveaboard through economic circumstances it's probably going to be cheaper to rent on land.

 

[doug748]

Looks like two things are going on here:

1) They may well be finding some 24/7 folk hard work
2) In the present circumstances they have sniffed a way of extracting even more cash out of people.

A girl was living next to me in PYH in a smallish, cheap old boat a couple of years ago, no problem at all but it looked tough. However, she was at University so I guess it worked out cheaper than renting and not so bleak if you have a lively social life. Doubling the charges knocks it right on the head.

Basically, it seems some marinas are happier with a marina filled with unused boats plus visitors paying through the nose and consuming overpriced food and drinks in the bars
.

 

[Seastoke]

I have not read what our terms are in our marina , but peeps posting them might be good to see.

 

[Concerto]

I have not read what our terms are in our marina , but peeps posting them might be good to see.

If you are in Conwy Marina, part of Boatfolk, then this is the section of their terms covering liveaboard. Only took a couple of minutes to google.

"The Owner must not use or permit any Boat to be used at the Marina for residential purposes without obtaining the Company’s prior written consent, which may be withheld or withdrawn at its absolute discretion or granted on such terms as it shall see fit. For the avoidance of doubt, a Boat shall be regarded as being used for residential purposes if, amongst other things, the Owner or anyone else with the Owner’s knowledge:
i. uses the Boat as his principal or main place of residence;
or
ii. stays on board the Boat in excess of an average of three nights per week over a twelve week period;
or
iii. uses the Company’s offices at the Marina as his mailing address. "
Full terms and Conditions here. Terms and Conditions | boatfolk

 

[KompetentKrew]

Wow so about 10K a year !
If one's a liveaboard through economic circumstances it's probably going to be cheaper to rent on land.

Plymouth Yacht Haven, if that's what's being referred to, is much cheaper than this. I think my 40' boat was about £500 a month on their monthly rates, but annual rates are cheaper. They used to do a deal which covered 5 or 6 months which was a 40% or 50% discount on their winter monthly rate, if you paid for the whole winter up front - it was very reasonably priced.

The Yacht Haven was the cheapest in Plymouth (of the big marinas, at least), so it wouldn't surprise me if they were hit hardest by covid.

 

[duncan_m]

I was there through the second lockdown covid had not impact. They actually had a waiting list because of schenigans at MDL across the way.

During the summer I've found marinas don't mind if you're on your boat a lot if you're only there for a month or two then move onto the next if staying in marinas is your thing.

 

[Blueboatman]

Perhaps human nature but I think there’s a bit of snobbery from the marinas POV
Nice posh 5 yr old sleek sailing vessel or gleaming mobo, with posh car , clothing, office manner etc no problem, stay all summer reading the Times and FT on the lounge cushions ??
And then there’s the scruffier lot? in perception anyway

That’s how discretionary bending of the rules works , wrongly or tolerably

 

[V1701]

Plymouth Yacht Haven, if that's what's being referred to, is much cheaper than this. I think my 40' boat was about £500 a month on their monthly rates, but annual rates are cheaper. They used to do a deal which covered 5 or 6 months which was a 40% or 50% discount on their winter monthly rate, if you paid for the whole winter up front - it was very reasonably priced.

The Yacht Haven was the cheapest in Plymouth (of the big marinas, at least), so it wouldn't surprise me if they were hit hardest by covid.

Not if you're paying double...

Presumably most will not be prepared or able to pay double so will leave, which is what they want. At the moment we're paying 20% more (and personally I have no issue whatsoever with paying more for being there more of the time) and most have stayed but if it were to double most would have little choice but to leave. And I know there are plenty who would say we're freeloaders and we shouldn't have been allowed to live aboard in the first place, etc., etc. but I for one could not afford private rent for a flat (even though I do work full time) so I don't know what I'd end up doing. Bottom line is marinas are businesses and they will squeeze and squeeze until the pips squeak in their drive for profit, they don't care that some of them have been homes for people for a long time but it has got a bit out of hand in some places including where I am. It's a real shame that it's come to this...

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Thinking about it a marina only makes more money out of a berth if it can put a bigger boat in it and every where I have ever been they maximise that so money would not seem to be the issue. It's peanuts the amount they get from sub letting.

I don't buy into the idea that a liveabord uses more facilities except perhaps showers but that is hardly going to affect the finances of the marina.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Not if you're paying double...

Presumably most will not be prepared or able to pay double so will leave, which is what they want. At the moment we're paying 20% more (and personally I have no issue whatsoever with paying more for being there more of the time) and most have stayed but if it were to double most would have little choice but to leave.

My comment was in reply to someone writing of £10,000 a year berthing fees.

My recollection was that winter berthing of my 40' boat for 5 or 6 months was in the region of £1200 or £1500, so I'm surprised that, even doubling, the fees could be quite as high as £10,000 a year.

 

[doug748]

£468 per m at PYH this year, so (if the double fee is correct) a nominal 10m boat will indeed be costing over £9000 per annum for liveaboard, as Yealm has suggested. £13,000 on a monthly deal.

There are small number of restricted access berths but even they would probably cost in the region of 7 grand at this liveaboard rate.

.

 

[Yealm]

Plymouth Yacht Haven, if that's what's being referred to, is much cheaper than this. I think my 40' boat was about £500 a month on their monthly rates, but annual rates are cheaper. They used to do a deal which covered 5 or 6 months which was a 40% or 50% discount on their winter monthly rate, if you paid for the whole winter up front - it was very reasonably priced.

The Yacht Haven was the cheapest in Plymouth (of the big marinas, at least), so it wouldn't surprise me if they were hit hardest by covid.

I used to pay about 4k to stay there annually for a 28 foot - so guessing now easily 5k for anything a bit bigger?
Double makes 10k.
Maybe I was getting the mugs rate !

And I think Sutton Harbour used to be cheaper (lock etc) - don't know if still the case ?

 

[Seven Spades]

Look how long do you think it would take for every marina in the country to fill up with people who have worked out that buying a boat and living on it is a lot cheaper than buying a house? The marinas would all soon be full and there would be no space for the roving yachtsman. One or two people who perhaps add value are ok but a large live-aboard community is a very bad thing.

 

[Blueboatman]

Personally , I have found that marinas without a few liveaboards and people moving up and down the pontoons each day are about as soulless or ‘welcoming’ as a multi storey car park. ????

And, to nick a joke from Tim Vine, that seems wrong on so many levels !

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Look how long do you think it would take for every marina in the country to fill up with people who have worked out that buying a boat and living on it is a lot cheaper than buying a house? The marinas would all soon be full and there would be no space for the roving yachtsman. One or two people who perhaps add value are ok but a large live-aboard community is a very bad thing.

Depends on which end of the rope you are on. There is nothing to say the "roving yachtsman" is any more worthy than the livaboard or the money bags that can afford a £500,000 yacht have the marina maintain it and visit it occasionally just to check it's still there or to impress his mates mistress.

 

[V1701]

Look how long do you think it would take for every marina in the country to fill up with people who have worked out that buying a boat and living on it is a lot cheaper than buying a house? The marinas would all soon be full and there would be no space for the roving yachtsman. One or two people who perhaps add value are ok but a large live-aboard community is a very bad thing.

But that's been the case for a long time and all that's happened is that most marinas have ended up and been fine with the relatively low numbers of people who for whatever reason have chosen to live on their boats. I would guess that the majority of them were boaters first and liveaboards second. I would also guess that if you suggested that living on a boat might be a good idea to a load of people who never thought of it before the vast majority would dismiss it straight away and the remaining few who liked the idea enough to actually buy themselves a boat and try it would not last through their first winter. How many roving yachtsmen are there doing their roving in UK waters anyway, I can't remember a single instance on here of one complaining about not being able to get a berth 'cos of all the liveaboards...