Propeller fell off after 1 hour, what to do?

nrbx said:
Ah awesome ;) well next spring I shall be hunting you then hehe.
Will be at Naburn.
(assuming we got it there with 2 props by then of course)

One for fun of him getting details off me for replacment.
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And then i get his email of changed attitude.......
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Oh right well id get 2 sets of props one for the journey up the east coast and one for the ouse!!
 
The solution is simple, your contract was with the person managing the work on your brhalf, not the man fitting the propellors, he was appointed to do the work by your work manager, you merely agreed to pay him directly.

If the person managing the work is a professional then he will have insurance, so ask him for his insurance details so you can submit a claim directly with his insurers, this will usually be enough to kick start him into action.
 
Assassin said:
The solution is simple, your contract was with the person managing the work on your brhalf, not the man fitting the propellors, he was appointed to do the work by your work manager, you merely agreed to pay him directly.

If the person managing the work is a professional then he will have insurance, so ask him for his insurance details so you can submit a claim directly with his insurers, this will usually be enough to kick start him into action.
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Good point, making a habit of this!

I am more than a little obsessive about propeller fitting, the most likely cause of this failure is the propeller riding on the key and not tight on the taper, therefore on the balance of probabilities loss of propeller was due to negligant fitting.

My fitting protocol tends to run somthing like this:

The keyway - On both the shaft and the propeller always make sure there are no sharp corners or burrs. Although proper machining techniques would dictate a radius in the corners of the shaft keyway, this is not always the case. But, all keys do need a radius on all corners so as to prevent riding in the corner of the keyway. This is besides the grinding that may be necessary for a "slipper cut" key.. Always be sure that the key you have selected slides easily through the propeller keyway and into the shaft keyway. Yes, there are some who think that it should be tight; I disagree 110%... Just about all new props require some light filing, deburring in the keyway so the key will slide smoothly with no binding, use a good, single cut file to dress the keyways/edges and a belt sander to radius/grind key stock.

As far as fitting the prop to the shaft, this should always be done BEFORE the key is used to ensure that the propeller and the taper are properly matched. A light spray of lubricant or smear of grease will allow you to install the prop and spin it on the shaft without the key to find out if there are any "catches." Many times you'll feel one keyway ride or catch on the other due to the imperfections of the machining. This is where lapping the two together will pay dividends. This can be done with standard light to medium grit valve grinding compound and only takes a few minutes to get a 95+% fit. It will also show you where your problem areas are.

Grinding in the taper is the second most important part of the proceedure. Any crevices/imperfections will lead to crevice corrosion making prop a real bitch to remove in the future. Another watch out for our friends in the Med, do not leave prop lying on the ground baking in the sun whilst fitting, particularly if you end up being the next person ATTEMPTING to remove it

Now the important bit...After the prop goes on the shaft properly WITHOUT the key, a small mark or reference should be made as to how far up the prop goes on the taper before the key is installed.

The reference point will guide you when the key is finally fitted to be sure that the propeller is fully seated on the taper and not riding on the key. This is the most common mistake in prop installations that I have seen, and what I suspect has happened here. Drive has to be transmitted though the taper NOT by loading up the key. Properly fitted you can transmit large amounts on power safely on a slim shaft with a slow (Admiralty) taper with no keyway which weakens shaft. This was common practice in 60/70's offshore power boats.

For a taper to work is has to be 'dry' after our trial fitting clean taper with brake cleaner, however is is most important that the nut or nuts are well lubricated and run easily up the shaft before final fitting.

As to the European Vs U.S approach to prop nuts........That runs into several volumes.
 
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He advised me he had someone take them off and that they would charge 300 GBP to do this and put them back on. I agreed and it was suggested i paid him direct to avoid the VAT as he does not charge it.

all to save a very few bob on the vat,on a P52 of what value :rolleyes:
 
nrbx said:
Hi Guy, Gals, and everyone inbetween,

As per usual things are going wrong over here.

My new to me boat had a ding out of one prop, so the man managing most of my work was asked to arrange for them to be refurbished.

He advised me he had someone take them off and that they would charge 300 GBP to do this and put them back on. I agreed and it was suggested i paid him direct to avoid the VAT as he does not charge it.

Although i have not yet paid him, he had asked for 380 Gbp payment.

Eventually after much delay the props were back on and looked shiny on the 11th May.

The boat was then launched on the 19th May, and we went straight out for a test run. We did around 20 miles at up to 26 knotts.

Coming back in to port solent, we put the boat in reverse and the starboard propeller fell off, we think it missed the rest of the boat but are yet to be lifted, although we are not leaking at least.

We were told by the boat manager to contact the propeller man who after 4 and a half days has sent the following email;



I am quite firmly of the stance that he is fully liable for all the costs as no way should a propeller fall off after 1 hour (please note we have used a underwater camera and there is no drive shaft damage).

What should i do? We have been months delayed already and I am desperate to start using my new boat :(

All the best,

Neil
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Sorry to hear of your problem. If you have not done so already it would be prudent to get a new prop on order as there my be a lead time on this.
best of luck
Stelican
 
As has already been said the first thing you need to do is secure the services of a diver. Given you know where it happened and it's in a narrow channel (the entrance to Port Solent?), then there is a high chance you will be able to recover the prop and that will reduce your loss by a huge amount. Even if the diver can't find the prop you will be able to claim his or her cost in any subsequent action because you were trying to mitigate you loss by hiring said diver.

Now on to who's fault it is. Is the chap who fitted your prop seriously suggesting that someone stole your lock washer then replaced the nut and tightened everything up to the point where it held up nicely for an hour until you put the boat in reverse, and presumable the nut unwound. Or possibly that someone decided to steal your prop, the one he just happened to have been working on, but having undone the nut her was unable to remove the prop which had been freshly fitted so there would be no corrosion. Having failed in their attempt to steal the prop our would be villain decided to re-fit the nut and washer (or possibly just the nut), to the point where it held up for an hour. My experience of thieves is that they would simply up sticks and depart if they couldn't get the prop off.

The fact is this chap has done something wrong and your prop has come off.

Get a diver out, try and find your prop, if you can find it get the boat lifted and have it re-fitted. Seek any costs over the £380 from your manager / the prop man. If you can't find the prop tell them you are going to order a new prop and intend to recover costs from them jointly. If they want to get hold of the prop at trade prices give them the choice. Then, when you're back in the water again take them to court and let everyone on this forum know who they are so we can all avoid using their services.

In the case of the person managing your boat what exactly do they do for their money? This seems the perfect situation for them to wade in and earn their money. Or are they merely pond life dredging a living from the toil of others and giving no value in return?

I wish you all the best in what must be a very frustrating incident.

Henry :)
 
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Hi Henry, and all.

Thank you for all the replies, making a fair bit of sense so far.

Does anyone know of any divers in the area that might want to have a quick hunt? Although I suspect a prop of its size with the passing traffic will be well burried I am not sure how likely a find is.

Other than that I will stay calm for now and try and apeal to the propeller guy to sort this out to start with.

I'll book the boat to come out and have a independent engineer on hand to take a view and make an opinion when it comes out as to if there is any other damage present that could have caused the loss.
 
Time really is of the essence for a salvage recovery - more than a couple of tides and things start to get buried. A quick google suggests that RS Divers might be your nearest option - worth a quick call?

Cheers
Jimmy
 
I would be tempted to make a claim off your own insurance. While you have to pay an excess, this will be less than the lift out. A refurb prop will be £200 to £250 from Steel Developments, or a new one possibly double that.

You might ask the guy who was overseeing your jobs for a contribution to cover your excess, or he might be named and shamed on here.

Put the rest down to experience. Otherwise you might spend a lot of time and effort chasing a solution, missing out on your fantastic boat!!
 
rafiki_ said:
I would be tempted to make a claim off your own insurance. While you have to pay an excess, this will be less than the lift out. A refurb prop will be £200 to £250 from Steel Developments, or a new one possibly double that.

You might ask the guy who was overseeing your jobs for a contribution to cover your excess, or he might be named and shamed on here.

Put the rest down to experience. Otherwise you might spend a lot of time and effort chasing a solution, missing out on your fantastic boat!!
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Hi Rafiki,

Unfortunatly not, I believe IF i can get a refurb which is unlikely as they are quite rare it will be 700-900 GBP, a new one could be 2000 - 3000 GBP.

Coupled to this i then need to get the other one off to check and to send away to be balanced with the new one before installing them both back on.

Throw in a lift and if we have to go new it could be reacing 4k to resolve this.

The hardest bit seems to be working out what propeller I am meant to have on there even at present to get a price!!
 
nrbx said:
Hi Rafiki,

Unfortunatly not, I believe IF i can get a refurb which is unlikely as they are quite rare it will be 700-900 GBP, a new one could be 2000 - 3000 GBP.

Coupled to this i then need to get the other one off to check and to send away to be balanced with the new one before installing them both back on.

Throw in a lift and if we have to go new it could be reacing 4k to resolve this.

The hardest bit seems to be working out what propeller I am meant to have on there even at present to get a price!!
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Neil, wow you have expensive tastes, but this does not change my thrust, in that you make the claim off your insurer, and get on with it!! I understand your frustration at poor service, but you have a fantastic boat, and currently cannot enjoy her. I doubt your fitter was an Engineer as he claims, but this is really beside the point.
 
Id hope that we're talking about 2k to sort it all out, only time will tell!

Insurance will only cover prop loss as a result of impact, just falling off clearly their view is whoever put it on did not do it correctly.

They did however remind me I do have free legal cover with them which was nice!
 
LS that's all very interesting, would account for a problem I had with a new prop I had a problem with many years ago.
Just out of interest where in Somerset are you?
 
Thanks all for the advice, plenty of it, I shall go away now and make a master plan!

Will update you when i know anything new and exciting.
 
I would look sharp as LNTM says work in the approach channel is due to start next week

Here


MAINTENANCE DREDGING - PORT SOLENT APPROACH CHANNEL
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN by the Queen’s Harbour Master Portsmouth that maintenance dredging will commence in the approach channel to Port Solent from the 30TH May 2011 and is expected to last for approximately 4 weeks which will be weather dependant.

The vessel conducting this task will be the “Witton II” (Backhoe Dredger) which will display the appropriate signals from the COLREGS when conducting her operations. As required spoil from Witton II will be loaded into one of two self propelled barges “Split Two or Split Three” for disposal to the NAB Spoil Ground.

QHM Harbour Control will be informed of the vessels daily area of operations and may be contacted on VHF Ch 11 or by telephoning 02392 723689 for the latest information. Their movements will be de-conflicted from other movements by QHM Harbour Control in the usual manner.

Cancel this Local Notice To Mariners Sun 26th Jun 2011 (38 days)
 
Neil do you know exactly where the prop fell off? Is it in an area which a diver could safely carry out a search? If so then I'd be looking to get a diver down asap. A diver worth his salt would stand a good chance of finding your prop.
 
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