Proof of vat paid

[simon_m]

In the mags they say if you're going to venture to france then there are various essential things you need, including proof of vat paid on the boat. We got ours 2nd hand from a friend, and whilst we have a bill of sale from him vat doesn't come into the equation. We have a *copy* of his original invoice from the dealer.

Has any one on the panel ever been asked for their documents ? Will I be fine with what I have ? etc ..

tvm

Simon

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[extravert]

Get the official answer from the official source, here...

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.hmce.gov.uk/forms/notices/ukyachts.htm>http://www.hmce.gov.uk/forms/notices/ukyachts.htm</A>

Clearly states that originals are required.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I hope to own a real boat.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

An original would be better but a copy will do. In 12 yrs of boating in the Channel and numerous crossings to France, I have never been asked for any documents whatsoever so dont worry about it
If you really want to do it, you could get a lawyor to get an affidavit from the first purchaser confirming that the copy of the invoice is genuine but I wouldnt bother

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[Skyva_2]

In St Vaast recently the French Customs asked for the owners passport and the papers of the boat. They checked all the boats on the visitors pontoon.

The SSR certificate was perfectly OK for this. It seems to prove that the boat is UK based and therefore no concern of the French for VAT purposes.

I carry other documents but produce the minimum asked for.

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[byron]

Strictly speaking you don't have to prove VAT or TVR paid unless you are keeping the vessel in France for over 6 month. (I thinks its 6 months).

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk

 

[andyball]

& it also says

"In the absence of any of the above, whilst cruising within the EC you should carry a Bill of sale (between two private individuals in the UK). Whilst this is not conclusive proof that Vat has been paid, it does indicate that Tax status is the responsibility of UK Customs"

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[extravert]

Yes, I agree, it does. If progressed, it will be referred to the HMC&E Personal Transport Unit in Dover, who judging by my experiences with them, will file and forget. Therefore in reality the original poster will be unlikely to have any problem. However, there will always be some official somewhere who one day will uphold the rules to the letter of the law, both abroad and here.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I hope to own a real boat.

 

[miket]

Is that a TVR V8 or V6?

I think you may mean TVA.

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[extravert]

That's not what HMC&E say. This is from their website...

U.K. residents should only use a boat in the Community if it is VAT paid, or ‘deemed’ VAT paid. Documentary evidence supporting this should be carried at all times.

<hr width=100% size=1>One day, I hope to own a real boat.

 

[Birdseye]

i suppose you can be asked anywhere in the EC to prove that your boat is vat paid. quite why this should apply to boats and not, apparently, to your car / truck/ caravan etc - I do not know.

the RYA told me that you were only ever likely to be asked if the official concerned had a specific reason for doing do - ie suspicion that your boat wasnt vat paid, an argument you had with him / his wife, brother, fellow citizen / bad behaviour / tatty courtesy ensign / and even (in the third world bits) something that Blair had recently done to upset them. so be polite, have handy the key documents (passports, ssr), and dont upset the natives.

the original vat invoice rather than the copy is required because if you buy a boat , pay vat but then re-claim vat on subsequent export, you will have to surrender the original doc to get the vat back. so posession of the original proves that you havent reclaimed the vat, a copy does not.

and supposedly, a transaction in the uk between two uk residents is a vat matter for the uk authorities. i wouldnt like to try to prove this to a greek vat official who cant speak english and who thinks you've insulted his sister. but then would he recognise a UK vat invoice anyway ?

incidentally, in these days when we all have access to inkjet printers, and when most companies no longer use pre-printed paper how is any official going to know if the invoice you show him is the original, or simply a version you have re-printed based on a copy of the original? particularly if (as with most of the UK industry) the boatbuilder has long since gone bust? not suggesting you do this (and I havent myself) but if anyone knows why I should be interested in hearing

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[Gunfleet]

<<quite why this should apply to boats and not, apparently, to your car / truck/ caravan etc - I do not know.
>>
presumably because your car is unlikely to be worth £200,000. My car and my boat are worth abt the same - well under £20k, and it is iniquitous that I can be chased abt the boat but not the car. I've always thought the C&E ruling that you should prove your boat was in the EU on a certain date in 1990 something runs contrary to the human rights legislation - specifically to the right to a private life. Surely C&E officers inventing hurdles in the past that we should somehow magically overcome is contrary to this? For what it's worth, my boat was built in 1966 and I can prove it. I have no idea where it was in the early 90's and the man who owned it then could be dead or alive... I have no way of establishing the fact. It is wretched that these buggers have introduced a law which requires all of us to prove events in the past over which we have no control and over which we could have had no control. I don't know why people bang on about mooring rights - it's a piffling iniquity compared to to vat on old yachts. Perhaps we should doorstep Christopher Booker.

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[qsiv]

I have to say that I carry a copy (not that you can tell, mind you). My VAT proof is a tatty liitle receipt torn out of a book, courtesy of HMC&E when the boat was 'imported'. Given the fact that duplicates can't be issued, I live in fear of having the original stolen and being asked to pay a huge amount of VAT all over again.

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[tcm]

You may well be stopped. I have been stopped by douanes/gendarames on average once a year. Originals will not do and i was once fined 1000 FFr for having only a copy of the Part 1 reg document on board.

They expect to see a permis de navigation (in french, and an ICC will do although not actually a requirement) a registration document (an original, or bill of sale) and a passport. If all the docs are perfickly in order as mine were last friday io n a french-registered boat, they will have you hanging about 40 mins while they fill in their nice forms, and then condescenindgly inform you that actualy, you are legal! Expect lots more wasted time if papers are legal, but only sort of, if explained. Expect a fine if any of the docs are "copies" - almost better off without them.

You can write out a "proof" of vat paid, as official as you like, to confirm that vat had been paid. Note that no "proof" is anything of the sort, cos lots of times you pay vat - and then reclaim it.

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[neale]

John M

I beleive that if you carry proof that your boat was built before a certain date, (which yours is), you do not need to worry about the VAT status.

Neale

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[byron]

You were supposed to apply for a certificate from the C&E at the time this came into being. They even set up a unit at Dover to handle this.

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk

 

[simon_m]

Thanks for all of your replies, most helpful. I wonder if our officials give the French the same stick when they come over here... I bet not.

Simon

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