Portuguese residency - current situation - advice needed

[RAI]

I'd just like to add that the ease of getting residency is courtesy of the withdrawal agreement, a hang over from freedom of movement.
Pensioners are particularly nicely treated.

 

[nortada]

I'd just like to add that the ease of getting residency is courtesy of the withdrawal agreement (WA), a hang over from freedom of movement.
Pensioners are particularly nicely treated.

Agree but I got my residency before the WA was signed off.

What was the special deal pensioners got

 

[RAI]

Agree but I got my residency before the WA was signed off.

What was the special deal pensioners got

Typically, pensioners are not expected to prove language skills or knowledge of the country. Then Portugal has had an 10 year no tax on foreigners' pensions, which I believe they are now tightening to a flat rate.

 

[nortada]

Typically, pensioners are not expected to prove language skills or knowledge of the country. Then Portugal has had an 10 year no tax on foreigners' pensions, which I believe they are now tightening to a flat rate.

Thanks.

Think the relaxation of tax on pension may only apply to the golden visa but as I do not have that kind of money not sure.

I was hoping for confirmation of no language skills required for residency.?

 

[Sailfree]

I enjoy the 10yr no tax on pensions. I have 6yrs left!! Since jan 20 its 10% for new residents (still lower than other countries)

I get 0 tax on all 3 of my pensions inc state pension. Wife will have her NHS pension taxed at source in UK. My understanding is that all military, police, civil servants, firemen Council employees etc pensions are taxed at source in UK.

To reduce the cash economy shops all have tills linked to finances and supermarket cards have your NIF number on them. At any shop checkout you are often asked if you want to add your NIF.

To encourage its use Financas give large cash prizes to a couple of receipts each year.

A South African that was going for a Portuguese passport said it important that they can see from your receipts that you spend most of your time in Portugal.

Lack of computer recorded receipts will catch out those trying to work the system in future years.

I pay my accountant €25 to submit my Portuguese tax return. He does get commission for arranging our house and car insurance.

Had greatest difficulty with 2019 tax return due to capital gains which should be €0 as reinvesting it (and more) in new large house. What has surprised me is how many in Financas don't know the correct way to complete the return. Computer keeps showing a tax liability when filled out differently 3 times as instructed by Financas.

4th time it worked tax =€0.

Portugal does require patience but their computer systems work. You can pay any bill at any ATM and get a receipt.

EDIT - should add I pay UK tax on rental income as its earned in UK. Once I have sold BTL and sorted UK capital gains I hope to never have to pay my UK accountant £400 to complete my UK tax return ever again!

 

[RAI]

I discovered that under the double tax agreement on income tax, countries reserve the right to tax pension income in its source country.
I also discovered that the income tax people know exactly what I receive from where from my banks. Happy chappies they are.

 

[GHA]

I discovered that under the double tax agreement on income tax, countries reserve the right to tax pension income in its source country.
I also discovered that the income tax people know exactly what I receive from where from my banks. Happy chappies they are.

Is that UK banks? So every time some money goes in the banks tell the revenue? ow does the revenue know which Joe Blogs the account belongs to?

 

[RAI]

Is that UK banks? So every time some money goes in the banks tell the revenue? ow does the revenue know which Joe Blogs the account belongs to?

It's EU banks, so UK may now opt out I guess, although the HMCR wallers demanded I pay whopping tax unless my pension was less than they estimated. The onus of proof was on me.
I went in to get my tax form filled in properly in Belgium, and they showed me my file which contained all my annual income sources (pensions), bank details, countries, everything. Meanwhile the Germans tax men were after me for back tax on my German pensions. I did get a refund from Belgium for the same years back tax, so more nuisance that value.
Seems they have got a central EU database sorted. No idea how they sort out Joe Blogs or John Smiths, maybe by simple bluff.

 

[GHA]

It's EU banks, so UK may now opt out I guess, although the HMCR wallers demanded I pay whopping tax unless my pension was less than they estimated. The onus of proof was on me.
I went in to get my tax form filled in properly in Belgium, and they showed me my file which contained all my annual income sources (pensions), bank details, countries, everything. Meanwhile the Germans tax men were after me for back tax on my German pensions. I did get a refund from Belgium for the same years back tax, so more nuisance that value.
Seems they have got a central EU database sorted. No idea how they sort out Joe Blogs or John Smiths, maybe by simple bluff.

Crikey. So were you resident in Belgium & Germany for this to happen?

 

[RAI]

Crikey. So were you resident in Belgium & Germany for this to happen?

Yes, resided in three countries plus a year in the USA,

 

[nortada]

Yes, resided in three countries plus a year in the USA,

A knowledgable expert in our midst, no less

 

[Tony Cross]

I discovered that under the double tax agreement on income tax, countries reserve the right to tax pension income in its source country.
I also discovered that the income tax people know exactly what I receive from where from my banks. Happy chappies they are.

The UK taxes the state pension in the UK by reducing your tax-free allowance by an appropriate amount. As long as you have no UK-only taxable income above your adjusted tax-free threshold there will be zero tax to pay in the UK. Greece (at least) does not tax the UK state pension because they know the UK does.

 

[GHA]

Yes, resided in three countries plus a year in the USA,

Previously spent many years not resident *anywhere*

 

[Graham376]

The UK taxes the state pension in the UK by reducing your tax-free allowance by an appropriate amount. As long as you have no UK-only taxable income above your adjusted tax-free threshold there will be zero tax to pay in the UK. Greece (at least) does not tax the UK state pension because they know the UK does.

It works quite simply in UK. My state pension is paid gross but the balance of my tax code is split between my private pension providers. Each receives a coding notice to deduct tax as necessary. Not had any problems in Portugal, we don't do tax returns as no income there.

 

[RAI]

Previously spent many years not resident *anywhere*

I've wondered about that. Is it really possible, or will some government, the health service and pensions eventually catch up?
In the UK with no ID cards it must be easier.
We have a Dutch lady here who was off the radar for years and now wants to sell her boat. Trouble is she wants a registration document (Vlaggenbrief) from the Netherlands, and that is the start of a long story.

 

[Clancy Moped]

I've wondered about that. Is it really possible, or will some government, the health service and pensions eventually catch up?
In the UK with no ID cards it must be easier.
We have a Dutch lady here who was off the radar for years and now wants to sell her boat. Trouble is she wants a registration document (Vlaggenbrief) from the Netherlands, and that is the start of a long story.

We managed it for 5 years, it's a headache but could be done.

 

[Graham376]

Previously spent many years not resident *anywhere*

So what do you do about pension contributions or are you not bothering?

 

[GHA]

So what do you do about pension contributions or are you not bothering?

class 2 stamp still goes in. Accountant sorts that. Still domiciled in UK, just not resident.

 

[GHA]

I've wondered about that. Is it really possible, or will some government, the health service and pensions eventually catch up?
In the UK with no ID cards it must be easier.

Both possible and legal. First time I did it the revenue were very helpful when I went for a chat. Basically if you *really* are non res they don't really care where you e are or what you do, just give them a cut of any earnings arising from activities carried out in the UK.
For most prob too many downsides, no health care for one. Never getting ill has worked well for that

 

[webcraft]

You are voicing the views of many here about.

Scottish (EU) passport, I wish you well and if given the opportunity would vote for you - but enough of this thread drift.

Sorry to hear you are still stuck in Cascais. I am sure many will agree, there are much nicer places.

So are you still on passage for The Canaries or has the Portugal bug bitten

We like Cascais, it is a pretty town if a little 'upmarket' for plebs like us.

Current plan is for a 3 month trip to the Canaries, then to Madera and maybe the Azores (both Portuguese territory of course)

This 'East Atlantic circuit' could be repeated...

- W