Polish Flag Registration

[Portofino]

There is no requirement for a skipper to have any qualifications to use a UK registered pleasure vessel anywhere in the world. So he can keep a UK registered boat in France indefinitely. You would follow international rules supplemented by local rules in respect of navigation. If you become resident in France and keep your boat there, even with UK registration, then you are required to meet local rules for equipment. This does not apply to non residents. This is similar to Portugal except that it is the boat that is considered resident not the owner. In neither case do these requirements cause any real difficulties.

Jet skis (PWCs) are not generally considered ships so are not required to have coastal state registration. Registration and user licencing if any is local. In the UK there is no national licencing but many local harbours have registration schemes for PWCs in order to use one. There is no compulsory training or qualifications, although the RYA offer a wide range of courses for water based activities including PWCs
RYA courses and qualifications
Pretty sure there will be regulations covering the use of PWCs in Cannes. Your task for the day is to find out what they are

If you are going to post on new topics it makes sense to do your own research first (not difficult) rather than rely on people like me to educate you. If you find it confusing quite legitimate to ask questions about specific bits you don't understand.

You are not tackling “ comity “ , more like lack of …..when time is exceeded .

This “ British flag = British rules “ debate regularly crops up. I think you need to read Uncloss 11 and other international agreements. The coastal State can impose whatever conditions it wants on vessels NOT on innocent passage. Portugal for instance requires pleasure craft there for more that 6 months to carry the same safety equipment as Portuguese registered ones although unlike a few years ago Portugal where foreign flagged boats that are deemed resident are required to comply with local rules on equipment. New Zealand also applies local rules to foreign boats that are resident, although like Portugal it exempts genuine visitors or boats on "innocent passage".



Innocent passage is an important concept in international law as that is when coastal states apply the principle of "comity" and respect the state flags rules. However once a boat starts cruising within the waters of the coastal state, and that time exceeds 6 months then “innocent passage “no longer applies and with it comity, although in practice most states do extend comity, at least for private leisure craft. That’s the current position within the Med.


They are turning a blind eye allowing those who exceed 6 months in there waters not to adopt there local qualifications.
This was because and still is intra EU never bothered ( ok maybe no written reciprocal agreement ) say a Swede keeping a boat in the Balearics or a German in the Canaries etc etc . Why should they bother each other and create .

How ever U.K. is not now in this club it’s a 3 P state .
The default position is as I have said ….
.Just because they (EU states )currently aren’t actually enforcing U.K. owners with a ICC who permanently keep there boats in the EU ….ie applying the letter of wider over arching maritime law means it’s still not right to assume the ICC covers you .
Even the RYA web site I linked …” what the ICC doesn’t do “ ^ says that .

Its only a matter of time before U.K. owners permanently keeping a boat in the Med gets treated differently from other EU members .l.eg a Swede keep his boat in the Med .

Can’t you see that the potential exposure?

 

[billskip]

There is no requirement for a skipper to have any qualifications to use a UK registered pleasure vessel anywhere in the world

Can you explain this please.

 

[billskip]

And this

 

[billskip]

 

[Fr J Hackett]

For states that have not adopted Un res 40 they may and it is purely up to the country, accept the ICC of other countries as proof of competence. If the country has adopted Res 40 then it is a requirement ( if they use the ICC as a recognition of competence and there would be little point in adopting it if they didn't) the ICC needs to be issued by that country.

 

[billskip]

For states that have not adopted Un res 40 they may and it is purely up to the country, accept the ICC of other countries as proof of competence. If the country has adopted Res 40 then it is a requirement ( if they use the ICC as a recognition of competence and there would be little point in adopting it if they didn't) the ICC needs to be issued by that country.

My concern is the statement

There is no requirement for a skipper to have any qualifications to use a UK registered pleasure vessel anywhere in the world

 

[Fr J Hackett]

My concern is the statement

It depends on a number of things, the countries own regulations, the nationality/ residence status even of the skipper, whether the boat is based in the country etc. It's quite a broad based statement but true in certain circumstances I think.

 

[billskip]

true in certain circumstances I think.

Possibly, but getting your boat released and paying fines, let alone all the inconvenience and argument, when one hope's that they are in "certain circumstances " is better left to Traona.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Possibly, but getting your boat released and paying fines, let alone all the inconvenience and argument, when one hope's that they are in "certain circumstances " is better left to Traona.

Not sure about Greece or Portugal but I think there is enough evidence, people with red dusters or other national flags with boats based in France using UK sailing qualifications to say that it's not a problem here and France and be very touchy and bureaucratic.

 

[Portofino]

And this
View attachment 161721

“ Visitors “
My point .
Turning a blind eye to loss of comity if you end up permanently based .

 

[Portofino]

Not sure about Greece or Portugal but I think there is enough evidence, people with red dusters or other national flags with boats based in France using UK sailing qualifications to say that it's not a problem here and France and be very touchy and bureaucratic.

Yet ! Because they are turning a blind eye
But in the future if this whole things brought to the attention of Brussels ….
eg one member state say a Swede is permanently using his / her flag state qualifications to keep a boat in Spain .Even though they follow the Spanish kit rules and could pass a kit check . There’s no formal reciprocity so Brussels knocks one up .Simple prob solved everyone in the EU happy .

Erh except those not in .ie 3 P .
Not really considered an issue as the icc still works for charter Co and innocent passage it all fits under the higher comity rules .

But now those U.K. flagged permanently based solely relying on ICC are knackered .
No need for officialdom to keep turning blind eyes as member states like many things ( a major benefit / point of the EU ) have sought alignment now .

 

[Tranona]

Yet ! Because they are turning a blind eye
But in the future if this whole things brought to the attention of Brussels ….
eg one member state say a Swede is permanently using his / her flag state qualifications to keep a boat in Spain .Even though they follow the Spanish kit rules and could pass a kit check . There’s no formal reciprocity so Brussels knocks one up .Simple prob solved everyone in the EU happy .

Erh except those not in .ie 3 P .
Not really considered an issue as the icc still works for charter Co and innocent passage it all fits under the higher comity rules .

But now those U.K. flagged permanently based solely relying on ICC are knackered .
No need for officialdom to keep turning blind eyes as member states like many things ( a major benefit / point of the EU ) have sought alignment now .

I cannot understand why you persist in bringing the EU into this. IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EU

Equally I am nor sure why you keep on saying that UK boaters "rely" on the ICC. Many do not have any qualifications at all never mind an ICC. It is not a requirement of any European state that a visiting UK skipper has any qualifications at all to use his boat in their waters.

The only thing you are right about is that the ICC is mostly used for charter boats, either because the individual state requires evidence of competence to skipper a boat under THEIR flag (such as Greece and Croatia) or it is a requirement of insurers. In both those states for example their authorities have a detailed list of the qualifications and certification that are acceptable, which of course includes the ICC even though neither are a signatory. note that all of this applies to EU citizens as well as those of third countries because (at the risk of repeating myself) it is nothing to do with the EU.

 

[billskip]

It is not a requirement of any European state that a visiting UK skipper has any qualifications at all to use his boat in their waters.

Ha ha.Now you are moving the goal posts...

 

[Portofino]

I cannot understand why you persist in bringing the EU into this. IT IS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE EU

So the rules of comity should apply uncloss 11 ……inc overstays / permanently based - they call it “ innocent passage “

It is not a requirement of any European state that a visiting UK skipper has any qualifications .


The only thing you are right about is that the ICC is mostly used for charter boats, either because the individual state

So the rules of comity uncloss11 are applied ^

 

[Beneteau381]

As usual a load of nonsense in here. First, registration and equipment/safety "rules" are nothing to do with the EU, but each individual state. You are correct that a state can impose its own rules overriding other state registration rules, but in reality few do, relying as you say on "comity" that is respecting the rules of other states. There is no formal limit to Innocent passage as you imply. As ever you take 6 months as some sort of magic time period when rules change and that is just not the case.

Your paragraph about Portugal and NZ is broadly correct, but AFAIK, Portugal is the only EU state that has gone down this route and officially introduced a rule regarding non Portuguese registered boats deemed resident in Portugal. In reality though it is not a big imposition as it only applies to equipment that would normally be carried on offshore boats. BTW the definition of "6 months" for boats in Portugal is different from that used for residence of people.

You are wrong about ICC and its recognition. It was never designed for "holiday" use but as an internationally recognised certificate of competence primarily for use on European inland waterways, but covered basic competences for handling a boat. It is only certification that attempts to be "international" and is recognised by many states including several important maritime ones like Greece who are not actually signatories. Not surprising that charter companies recognise it as a way of getting some confirmation of competence from charterers. Generally speaking most states are not interested in seeing evidence of competence from private boats under other flags, relying again on comity. However an ICC will be useful should a skipper be asked to show a " licence".

If we do the January trip from Albufeura to Ayamonte, we break the 6 month stay and all iswell. Well understood by most old time expats there

 

[Graham376]

If we do the January trip from Albufeura to Ayamonte, we break the 6 month stay and all iswell. Well understood by most old time expats there

We just tell them we were away for a week to avoid the circulation tax. Went to renew 6 months light dues last week and she informed us last payment expired in Feb last year but let us off with just payment for six months ahead. Very busy at the moment, 17 boats in your favourite anchorage and we're having fun watching boats run aground due to missing red can between 21 & 23

 

[Beneteau381]

We just tell them we were away for a week to avoid the circulation tax. Went to renew 6 months light dues last week and she informed us last payment expired in Feb last year but let us off with just payment for six months ahead. Very busy at the moment, 17 boats in your favourite anchorage and we're having fun watching boats run aground due to missing red can between 21 & 23

The missing red can still misding then? was frightening coming in the other month at high tide on springs with the banks all covered and no reference point as we turned around 21 to see nothing there! Luckily the boss had navionics switched onwith an old track that we frantically zoomed in on! Martim could be seen in the distance shepherding a launched boat out!

 

[Zing]

Just let me know as I seem to have missed it, what are the advantages of a Polish flag other than to avoid onerous Spanish safety rules?

 

[shan]

Not sure about Greece or Portugal but I think there is enough evidence, people with red dusters or other national flags with boats based in France using UK sailing qualifications to say that it's not a problem here and France and be very touchy and bureaucratic.

We have been boarded in Portugal by the GNR; they checked all our documents and were happy with them. Portuguese flagged boat, UK ICC.

 

[Graham376]

Yesterday, asked a friend in Faro who charters small power boats out and he said ICC is OK.