Picking up a mooring buoy in a gale

[VO5]

I have been reading this thread with interest.

First of all not every sailing vessel behaves the same so you cannot impose hard and fast rules.

For example not every vessel, and not every sloop for that matter seeks the wind through the stern.

My Sealord certainly doesn't. She has a tendency to lie beam on to the wind.

My practice is in the form of a prepared drill.

I have a warp with one eye at one end and a whipping at the other. In the middle of this warp there is a yard of this rope which is wormed, parcelled and laid.

The eye is dropped in place over the windward cleat and the warp led through the bow. This warp is attached to a length of line. This line is attached to a Swifty Matic on a long pole.

On approaching the bouy on the lee side the pole is quickly offered to the ring and the Swifty gets the line in the ring. The line is quickly brought back aboard trailing the warp, which is quicly made fast.

Then, at leisure the scope is adjusted so that the parcelled section is round the ring.

I may choose to put a second warp through, or as the circumstances require.

I have additionally a warp with a chain in the middle for the same purpose if needed.

I think that trying to manoevre stern formost to approach is just courting trouble, frankly.

 

[Little Five]

What he means is a form of hove too but under power. You position the yacht upwind between close hauled and fine reach with the helm down i.e. trying to turn the bows back into the wind. The boat drifts to leeward. The "carefully applied power astern" is used to stem forward motion but not drive the boat forward.

You find in very strong winds that the yacht adopts a stable aspect to the wind and the throttle's power required to change direction is so much more that small throttle movements effectively control forward speed only.

Of course the time to find out how a particular model behaves is before you need to pick up a mooring in strong wind. This method can also be used to pick up a man over board under power in heavy seas and big winds.

I am trying to imagine this scenario in relation to my own mooring and don;t fancy it one bit! Also probably being a bit thick here but as you describe above "...hove to under power ..." what sail arrangement are you envisioning here?

 

[Ubergeekian]

k that trying to manoevre stern formost to approach is just courting trouble, frankly.

I'd pay good money to see someone try to do it in my boat. Well, in a boat like my boat. My boat would be a l-o-o-o-n-g way away ...

 

[bedouin]

While I've not done this in a gale - I've used the principle to pick up a buoy single handed in F6-7 winds. I've usually done this by reversing up to the buoy from dead down wind and picking up the buoy from the stern.

Doing the same thing with bows to wind would be very difficult as it would be hard to stop the bows getting blown off, whereas stern to wind you stay in pretty good control of the boat all the time and even if you have to bail out you can do so easily

 

[Seajet]

Is it me, or am I right that a normal propellor is roughly 30% efficient going astern ?

In a GALE I'd be lucky to motor forwards let alone backwards - a case of sailing on, which I must say seems a good sign of a boat or its' designers' priorities.

 

[alant]

In strong winds almost the only way I can get a moden high-freeboard narrow-keeled 35-footer onto a mooring singlehanded is stern first into wind: you can place the stern to within an inch or two of the buoy under complete control.

Try stopping head to wind and bow to buoy you firstly lose sight of the buoy as you approach, and by the time you've run up to the bow to catch the mooring with a boathook the boat has blown off sideways too far one way or the other.

Once moored up stern to buoy run a long line from the bow to the mooring, let go the stern, and pull in rapidly from the bow to stop you dropping the full 35 feet or so back and fouling the next moored boat. . You can usually get 2/3rds of this line in by hand, then either put line on windlass to drag in rest, or give burst of ahead to take slack out if you don't have a windlass.

Stern first if you have the power, yes.
But all this in a full gale?
Not the same as doing it in 'strong winds'.
Its at least double the wind pressure just from F7 - F8 & not sure most crew could handle that.

Also, drifting sideways down on a buoy, in a full gale, you would have to be very skilled to prevent running over the groundline, with a chance of wrapping around keel/prop/rudder. Yes, used to pick up MOB, but he isn't attached to the bottom.

 

[westernman]

Is it me, or am I right that a normal propellor is roughly 30% efficient going astern ?

In a GALE I'd be lucky to motor forwards let alone backwards - a case of sailing on, which I must say seems a good sign of a boat or its' designers' priorities.

Not necessarily - my propeller (feathering J-Prop) is more efficient going backwards. Going forwards it has the sternpost in front of it which stops it getting a good bite.,

I can only get 2/3 the rpm in reverse which I can get going forwards.

 

[westernman]

Stern first if you have the power, yes.
But all this in a full gale?
Not the same as doing it in 'strong winds'.
Its at least double the wind pressure just from F7 - F8 & not sure most crew could handle that.

Also, drifting sideways down on a buoy, in a full gale, you would have to be very skilled to prevent running over the groundline, with a chance of wrapping around keel/prop/rudder. Yes, used to pick up MOB, but he isn't attached to the bottom.

Most boats these days have enough power to make at least some way against a full gale.

 

[Seajet]

I've tried this - going side to, for MOB practice on YM Offshore course.

The only real MOB's I've had were funnily enough from racing dinghies; once when playing about in big surf on the East Winner surfing my Scorpion dinghy with 2 crew, Darwin played his hand and selected the thick one not holding on ( and not wearing a wetsuit, it was early spring ) to wash over the side - we got him back quite easily, though subsequent events like trying to make off with a lot of my cruiser kit make me wish I hadn't bothered.

On the second occasion, I was helming the Scorpion, and was too slow to get in when a squall ceased, so got dragged straight out of the toe-straps; I surfaced in time to see the crew looking round to ask where the hell I was steering, and the look on his face when he saw just a tiller...

I'd go side on to a large mooring buoy, especially if singlehanded, but only if for some reason I couldn't pick it up to windward on a fine reach as described previously.

Michaelchapman, what about the prop blade shape ? Designed for one way I think, whether something in front of it or not, and revving merrily doesn't mean it's 'biting', quite possibly more like cavitation...

 

[westernman]

I've tried this - going side to, for MOB practice on YM Offshore course.

Me to. But only in a F7 never in a full gale.

I'd go side on to a large mooring buoy, especially if singlehanded, but only if for some reason I couldn't pick it up to windward on a fine reach as described previously.

I usually plan on going side to on to a mooring buoy - if possible approaching it at about 45 degrees to the true wind just upwind of it so when the bows blow off the buoy comes to rest against the boat a little aft of the shrouds where it can easily be threaded through with a warp.

However, I have never tried this in a strong wind - I usually try to pick an overnight spot which is protected from a full gale!

 

[capnsensible]

I'd pay good money to see someone try to do it in my boat. Well, in a boat like my boat. My boat would be a l-o-o-o-n-g way away ...

I'll do it free.......love boats.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I am trying to imagine this scenario in relation to my own mooring and don;t fancy it one bit! Also probably being a bit thick here but as you describe above "...hove to under power ..." what sail arrangement are you envisioning here?

No sail up at all. Next time you are out on a blow take all power off and put the helm down as the bows blow off and just watch the boat. Then when engaging forward or reverse she what she does. Just use tick over, or just over tick over. If you have a plotter its very easy to see what is happening. Its a tried and tested method. I was introduced to it over 10 years ago by an RYA examiner.

The degree of control and the effectiveness of the method will be boat dependent but I have used this method on 3/4 keel (as opposed to long or full) and fin keel yachts in strong winds to "ferry glide" sideways. The degree of control is quite remarkable. If you notice the bow turning when applying revers power, just ease back on the throttle. The stronger the wind the more reverse power you can use without affecting the bow's aspect.

Like everything it has a place and time.

 

[Little Five]

No sail up at all. Next time you are out on a blow take all power off and put the helm down as the bows blow off and just watch the boat. Then when engaging forward or reverse she what she does. Just use tick over, or just over tick over. If you have a plotter its very easy to see what is happening. Its a tried and tested method. I was introduced to it over 10 years ago by an RYA examiner.

The degree of control and the effectiveness of the method will be boat dependent but I have used this method on 3/4 keel (as opposed to long or full) and fin keel yachts in strong winds to "ferry glide" sideways. The degree of control is quite remarkable. If you notice the bow turning when applying revers power, just ease back on the throttle. The stronger the wind the more reverse power you can use without affecting the bow's aspect.

Like everything it has a place and time.

Thanks B.O.B. I appreciate the reply and will try it out.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

What Cunliffe and Anderson Really Mean

.... In the section on mooring buoys they mention picking up a buoy in gale force winds is easier "heading directly to leeward" ...."it is relatively easy to hold a downwind heading by using carefully applied power astern" .... Could someone expand on this for me? ...

tudorsailor, I made an assumption in my previous posts but having now read the section in the book (Boat Handling Under Sail and Power, Anderson and Cunliffe, Fernhurst Books, 1995, Page 53) its clear what they mean.

Its very straight forward, in a Gale (50 kts as they state) it will be very difficult to keep the bow into the wind at slow speed. So just motor straight down wind at the buoy using reverse to keep forward velocity low as the wind power will be shoving you along at speed anyway. Bring the bow to the buoy and the motion should allow one to secure to the buoy before going to neutral and allowing the boat to drift round head to wind.

They state that the motion will likely be "easier" and wind and rain will be at you back which is an advantage if having to "peer into driving spray and rain".

Assumption, eh!

 

[Lucky Duck]

tudorsailor, I made an assumption in my previous posts but having now read the section in the book (Boat Handling Under Sail and Power, Anderson and Cunliffe, Fernhurst Books, 1995, Page 53) its clear what they mean.

Its very straight forward, in a Gale (50 kts as they state) it will be very difficult to keep the bow into the wind at slow speed. So just motor straight down wind at the buoy using reverse to keep forward velocity low as the wind power will be shoving you along at speed anyway. Bring the bow to the buoy and the motion should allow one to secure to the buoy before going to neutral and allowing the boat to drift round head to wind.

They state that the motion will likely be "easier" and wind and rain will be at you back which is an advantage if having to "peer into driving spray and rain".

Assumption, eh!

As an earlier poster has mentioned I would be very cautious about using this method for fear or getting the keel, prop or rudder caught up in the mooring. Also I suspect the 180 degree turn as the boat becomes wind rode could be quite exciting

 

[Victoria Sponge]

I think they might mean reversing, arse into wind, upto the bouy. I've heard of this as a technique for picking up in normal conditions with the wife sat on the transom instead of yelling 30' down to the front of the boat to her. The line still runs from the front of the boat, you'll just need to do a bit of grinding to shorten it up when you're tied on. Sounds like it could be a good idea in strong winds to me.

Dave

I always helm onto a mooring buoy. It works so much better as he is much taller, with longer, stronger arms, so is much better equiped to pick the buoy up.

 

[Seajet]

BlowingOldBoots,

I thought 'gale' - F8 - status started around a real 35knots ?

No-one inc' me seems to have mentioned so far, in the to me unlikely event of being able to reverse into a gale with the distict possibility of waves hitting the transom/crew/engine, prop-walk will be a very significant consideration, especially at the pregnant pause while it's engaged.

 

[SHUG]

Get a ketch.
Feathers up to windward beautifully ...even in a gale.

 

[tom52]

I dont think reversing into the gale is whats proposed at all.

I would paraphrase the instructions as....

"Get directly upwind of the bouy. Without any power let the boat weathercock under bare poles. The bow will be pointing at the bouy. As the boat is blown toward the bouy use reverse to control the speed of approach. Use the tiller to counteract any sideways effects of the tide."

How well this works for your boat depends upon how well it lies directly fore and aft to the wind with no sails and no power.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

The Section of Text From The Book In Question

This is the text by Cunliffe / Anderson from my copy of the book referenced by the OP. Perhaps it will help clarify the answer to the OPs question: -

Extreme wind conditions
In winds of gale force it is occasionally more practical to pick up a buoy heading directly to leeward. It is almost impossible to hold a boat head to wind at slow speed in 50 kts of wind, but it is relatively easy to hold a downwind heading by using carefully applied power astern. The downwind approach also has the advantage that the helmsman and crew are not blinded by having to peer into driving spray and rain. In addition, the motion of the boat is likely to be easier.