Picking up a mooring buoy in a gale

[Bosun Higgs]

My confusion comes with the bit that says "head directly to leeward". Does not that mean head downwind ie with the wind behind rather than upwind or "windward"?

Maybe I should email the authors somehow

TS

What he means is toddle off downwind until past the buoy and then approach it going astern.

Should work well on a modern boat - the big issue you have in any sort of wind is the bow blowing off. Indeed its sometimes more comfortable to anchor by the sternb to avoid hunting around the anchor.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Seems to me that if he/they had written "downwind" instead of "to leeward" there would have been a lot less confusion.

 

[prv]

What he means is toddle off downwind until past the buoy and then approach it going astern.

No it isn't.

Pete

 

[Seajet]

I'm amazed at how many interpretations can be made of a simple statement !

My own take on it is that an approach into wind stern first is what's being suggested; as I've said, I know my boat fairly well after 32 years together, and she won't motor backwards or even forwards into a true gale !

I've reproduced an account here from George Mees, an experienced sailor who at the time had a similar boat, another Anderson 22 - I suspect having a roller furling headsail caused enough windage ( and poor shape when used deep reefed ) to tip the odds against him, one of many reasons I use seperate hanked headsails - have tried this on larger boats I've owned and would have to opt for a roller with larger rigs.

However, read this and think about motoring in reverse up to a buoy; and Bosun Higgs, what sort of boat apart from a double ender is going to be happy anchored by the stern in a real gale ?!

There would be terrific smashing of waves on the transom, with that and the windage creating a lot more pull on the anchor, and the cockpit may well be filled, plus getting in & out of the companionway would be fraught - not an option in my book...

This is one of the best accounts of a small boat in a gale I have come across, and note this is relatively inshore with no wave action;

- in this case I reckon from my own experiencs in my Anderson, I reckon this was at least a true F9...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

From George Mees, who with his wife Sarah owned Anderson 22 no.140 'Physche'.
They are both champions in the Snipe dinghy class.

George ; " Can't agree more about speed being a safety factor - when it gets horrid you need to go for it - well a couple of weeks ago it blew up while we were on the lower reaches of the Thames ( wind against tide ) and we went for home - dead into the wind which was so bad the boat would not go through stays" ( George later explained he was having to play the main in bursts in a narrow stretch ).*

" Took four attempts to get around as the wind was so strong on the hull - we had two reefs in and only a small bit of jib, motor sailing was out of the question. Stinging spray was being blown over the boat and the ( windspeed ) memory recorded a 50 knot gust.*

After three hours we were up to Dartford Bridge and we were getting knocked over again & again - we had to sail as the river is wide there, and we had never seen so many ships on a Sunday for ages ( sheltering ).

Under the lee of the bridge I dropped the sails and cut the topping lift to drop the boom to reduce windage. With the engine flat out we made very slow progress, veering off in the big gusts - the wind lulled for half an hour and we made it back to our mooring. We could not get off into our dinghy as it came back up again and we just sat there.

Spray continued to fill the cockpit etc, it was horrid. The club launched a RIB to take us and several other crews off."

 

[alant]

This is the text by Cunliffe / Anderson from my copy of the book referenced by the OP. Perhaps it will help clarify the answer to the OPs question: -

This seems to advocate holding your boat bows onto a buoy, which is downwind of you - which from the helm you will be unable to see, in 50knts of wind, whilst your crew attempt to attach a line to it (long arms?). Then making sure you do not run over said ground tackle whilst the stern pays off, allowing the bows to head to windward.

IMHO, you will need very good crew & a great deal of luck attempting this.

Hands up, how many on this thread, have actually experienced 50 knts of wind (F10) over the deck, whilst at sea?

 

[Ubergeekian]

Hands up, how many on this thread, have actually experienced 50 knts of wind over the deck, whilst at sea?

My best is 45kt in the Kyles of Bute this summer. Small fetch, so waves relatively small.

 

[prv]

Hands up, how many on this thread, have actually experienced 50 knts of wind (F10) over the deck, whilst at sea?

Yes, but not on my own boat.

Pete

 

[Sailfree]

Is it me, or am I right that a normal propellor is roughly 30% efficient going astern ?

In a GALE I'd be lucky to motor forwards let alone backwards - a case of sailing on, which I must say seems a good sign of a boat or its' designers' priorities.

I tried this in 36kts of wind on a 30HP Volvo saildrive on a 36' Dufour. Did not have the power. Ended up anchoring.

 

[mikeinkwazi]

me too

This seems to advocate holding your boat bows onto a buoy, which is downwind of you - which from the helm you will be unable to see, in 50knts of wind, whilst your crew attempt to attach a line to it (long arms?). Then making sure you do not run over said ground tackle whilst the stern pays off, allowing the bows to head to windward.

IMHO, you will need very good crew & a great deal of luck attempting this.

Hands up, how many on this thread, have actually experienced 50 knts of wind (F10) over the deck, whilst at sea?

We had 48knts Easterl beween Scillies and cape Cornwall. Only making 1.5 knts to windward so we gave up and spent a happy 3 days at St Marys! Anchored once in 50knts, protected by sandbanks in Portugal. Backing up to a mooring in those conditions is not possible!

 

[Little Five]

I tried this in 36kts of wind on a 30HP Volvo saildrive on a 36' Dufour. Did not have the power. Ended up anchoring.

Last summer I tried to get into the estuary to my mooring in 33 knts, odd gusts to 41, gave up after Matilda,( elderly yanmar 12) could make no headway at all despite being at full power- ok, so that's not much I admit, but it made me think about replacing Matilda (shush she might hear).

 

[photodog]

I doubt I could stand on the foredeck in 50 knots...

 

[prv]

I doubt I could stand on the foredeck in 50 knots...

I was pleased to note that my tilley hat remained on my head in 50+ knots.

On that occasion we were motoring into the wind through the straits of Gibraltar in Stavros (or possibly William, I don't remember). Although both ships have big engines and fancy props (the hulls having originally been built to be motor vessels) we were barely creeping over the ground. I remember the chief officer stumping out onto the open bridge muttering "at least one f-ing thing has gone right this trip - if we didn't have the tide with us we'd be going backwards."

Of course, they do have a hell of a lot of windage. We often have to tack the rig even with no sails set, the bare yards present so much resistance.

Pete

 

[Phideaux]

Of course none of this mentions what the tide might be doing and this is likely to have a significant influence on your approach to the buoy.

Certainly my understanding of the suggested approach is to be upwind of the buoy with your stern into the wind and let the wind take you towards the buoy (bows on) controlling your drift rate by applying reverse power and no doubt some fine tuning using the tiller/wheel to keep the bows on to the buoy.

 

[Seajet]

With reference to the 'has anyone been in winds over 50 knots ?' question, I've shamefully lifted another example from the Anderson website I run, this time my own token, since then I've been in worse but this is a reasonable example I think ( and the only one I've written about ! )....

----------------------

One from me, (seajet) I'm an experienced high performance dinghy sailor since a boy, and have done quite a few cross Channels.

An experience I had on 'Silent Running', No.119, years ago :-
It was Easter, and I had to move the boat from Chichester to Cowes for a month until my club mooring was ready.

My crew was 18 or so, fit and an experienced sailor, I was about 22 at the time. We had a forecast of 5-6 gusting 7, on the nose, but having confidence in the boat & ourselves we thought that within limits.

As we set off at slack water through Chichester Bar, it soon began to get up stronger than advertised - and we could not turn back, Chi' Bar in a big Southerly wind against the ebb is full of large, chaotic breaking surf.*

*I once met an American in Alderney, who, finding we were from Chichester, said " don't people get killed there? That's the roughest place I've seen !" And he'd just crossed the Atlantic !**

Anyway we had to press on, choosing the wide passage between the forts of the Solent, rather than the narrow 'Dolphin' passage through the anti-submarine barrier.

We had two reefs in and the storm jib, the only time I've ever used it, but it certainly justified itself that day ! Silent Running uses hanked headsails, rather than roller reefing, and I do think it makes a big difference when the chips are down - even if not so convenient in light conditions.

The boat made good progress, punching through the short steep seas. As we were between the forts the waves were surprisingly big for the Solent - suddenly a bigger one ( maybe ten feet, but short & breaking ) smacked into the side, filling the cockpit. We were okay, being harnessed on, and dumped the sheets dinghy style as she was knocked down by a vicious squall.

With the weight of the water in the cockpit ( I should have had the well plug out as an extra-large drain ) the boat was weighed down and almost lifeless, struggling to get going despite the wind power available. While we were still a sitting duck, another big one came up and clobbered us severely. We were knocked down to around 60-70 degrees ( the mast was never near the water or anything that drastic ) and both crew John and I completely submerged in green water.

Thankfully Silent Running sprang up & recovered, getting going and shedding the water before we could have any more fun. It should also be mentioned that the bottom was quite weedy, having spent that winter afloat, so she was really trying for us !

We had both been surreptitiously looking to leeward at Langstone Harbour entrance as a possible bolt-hole, but one glance at the mass of surf convinced us to carry on.

There were no more big waves, but we did go through vicious squalls lasting twenty minutes or so at a time - we flew the sheets, and she stayed quite upright, still making slow progress to windward.

The only worry to appear was that John, having rather poor waterproofs, began to get hypothermia, to the extent that he just curled up in the cockpit corner, semi-asleep ( or unconscious ) - as I say, it was Easter. I tried to get him to go below, but could not move him, and I rather had my hands full - I thought it better to stay on the helm and get us there a.s.a.p, rather than mess about heaving to and then struggling to get John into the cabin, as I would have had to do on a longer trip.*

After a while we arrived in Cowes and tied up, whereupon I commented, " I suppose in retrospect that'll be a good sail !"

I then accidentally locked us out of the cabin in the wind & spray, but that's another story !

It later turned out that 'Silent Running' had been observed by the square rig Brig T.S. Royalist, which recorded squalls of 55 knots at the time. They were so impressed with 'the little blue boat' they gave us the privilege of a lift back the next day.

Lessons learned*
1, If it's forecast to be 'on the limit', what if it increases ?
2, Buy THE BEST waterproofs - they are a major part of the boat, and on small boats much more important than on larger craft.
3, We were in the relatively sheltered Solent - we would never have dreamed of setting off in open waters, though in longer frequency waves, away from tidal influences( i.e. the Channel ), it might have been okay if caught out.

 

[Seajet]

However for me the whole scenario is very unrealistic. If it's blowing a gale the last thing I want to be doing is mooring out in the open water.

I think this very true and a good point!

However if faced with a crowded South Coast harbour in a REAL gale, if there was nowhere left to anchor at max' scope I might feel compelled - before being driven onto a lee shore - to drop my anchor among moorings, with the idea

A, hope it holds and we all stay seperate,

B, If my anchor doesn't hold it might catch the ground tackle of a mooring !
( cross chains on the seabed, common in South Coast set-ups ).

I've never had to resort to that particular Plan B, but I'd defy anyone who has been in that situation to say it didn't flash across their mind...