PBO & the Trades Descriptions Act

[Forbsie]

Could I please remind the Editorial Staff of PBO that the the front cover states "Britain's Biggest-Selling Yachting Magazine SAIL & POWER.

In this month's (April), I count 256 words on Power and everything else on Sail. Although this is an improvement on the November '02 issue, it is still pretty pitiful for what is supposed to be a 'cross-cultural' magazine. IMHO!!!!!

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/forbsie?&page=1>My Project</A>

 

[Birdseye]

i agree - and i'm a sticks and rags man

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[tr7v8]

But it's always been the same, the moor boaty section has always been fairly minimal. Obviously the advertisers think so judging by that mix.

<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[Blue_Blazes]

I'm inclined to agree, nothing at all wrong with the quality and informativeness, (is that a proper word?),of the content, but the sail/power balance is non-existant. There is a gaping hole in the market for a "Practical Motor Boat" mag, for those motor boaters,(Myself included), who can't afford to solve all their problems by cheque book.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

I was also thinking this, but and don't shoot me in flames for my opinion, there is not a great deal to write about stinkies that is not covered by raggies.

For instance the range of most stinkies is relatively limited to a few hundred miles at best, so any of the uk ports info is as relevant when discussed by raggies visiting.

Most equipment held on a motor boat is held on a yacht, the basic stuff, so motor boaters can read up to that point allowing the raggies to read on about rig etc. If you stopped at the equipment on a motorboat it would be a very short read.

This month talks about setting foresails etc. I found this very interesting as I have been having problems setting my genoa cars correcty. Motor boat would be - turn wheel until compass reads then hit autopilot or steer, woo hoo, there really isn't much more to moving the craft through the water is there.

Basically what I am trying to say, all the boat handling basics for the stinkies are there along with the raggies, but not vica versa. Unless you want to read about home cinema, playstations and all the other toys on the stinkies, personally I would rather read about peoples experience and boat handling etc.

Just my tuppence

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>

 

[Blue_Blazes]

Of course the nav and port information is the same, nobody said it isn't. but to suggest that all there is to distinguish "stinkies" from "raggies" is home cinema, playstations and toys, is missing the point. A gaff cutter is a fundamentally different animal to a sportscruiser, as are the techniques required for their proper operation and maintenance. No magazine can be all things to all people. Sailing types are very well served by PBO. My point is that it's a shame there is no equivalent "practical" mag for the more "hands-on", or skint, or just plain mean, members of the motor boating fraternity

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

You are correct and I agree in part, but there is a line in the sand I think. The practical tips for the smaller motor boats and motor dinghies are there as in they are the same, but and I could be wrong whe motor yacht fraternity are not really up for eaking out extra room in their much larger vessels with MUCH larger bills. I could not even imagine to run say a 40ft motor yacht on my budget, yet I could probably run a 40ft sailing yacht. Do people who spend hundreds on fuel for a weekend running about really have the same needs to save a few pounds here or there.

When I was younger I used to potter about in sailing dinghies and angling boats, I used to find the PBO very usefull and would find a lot of the sailing experiences interesting and learn from them. I could use the practical tips as well as I could today if I was still playing in 25ft angling boats I would still find the magazine relevant; though if I had a 30ft gleeming motor yacht I might look towards a more specialist mag like motor boats monthly. Unfortunately I think it a bit apples and oranges, tell me I am wrong but a really think there is a definate crossover point from your small motor cruiser to motor yacht etc.

Saying that I will probably not be renewing my subs to PBO and moving over to yachting monthly as I still find myself buying it monthly alonside and find it more relevant to the type of boating I am doing now. But no doubt will pick up a PBO from time to time.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>

 

[jfkal]

Bravo.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[StephenSails]

I agree, correct me if I am incorrect but All At Sea has a bigger circulation as well?

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.yachtinguniverse.com

 

[tr7v8]

To a certain extent you are right about raggie & stinkie stuff in PBO being the same, but not all of us run 40ft power boats, mine is 25 foot and yes unleaded disappears at £ 50 an hour but some areas are different, such as outdrives engines etc. and if Practical Boat Owner has a masthead on it's cover that says sail & POWER then it needs to look at things like:- outdrive servicing, engine servicing etc. A little while ago one of their tech. investigations was done on a Fairey Swordsman and was very interesting but thats just one article. I could also turn the whole thing around and say that a lot of a stinkie article could apply to you raggies!
The only magazine that addresses the power issue at a Practical level in my view is Boat Mart and that has lost the plot recently.

<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[colvic]

Haven't a lot of the mags lost the plot recently? I think that there is in fact a limited number of articles that can be written about a boat whether power or raggie. I sure wouldn't like the job of trying to come up with "new" articles each month or even trying to rejig what has gone before. If you kept no more than three years mags, then I think some 95% of what you need to know would have been covered and if you cut out the relevant articles and file them then you could stop by the mag on a regular basis.

However, I run a motor sailer and so fall into both camps, and with a whole 30HP under the deck we can manage some 7knotts max at say £2.50 an hour. Even though we carry in our meagre 26ft. a desktop PC, dvd etc.etc.etc., I still find it interesting to read how the stinkies cope with there at times very different problems...would trim tabs help with the roll you always get with a Colvic? Though the engines you guys use are huge in comparison, the basic principles are the same and at the costs you are expected to pay I'd do mine own servicing as a matter of principle.


Phil

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Forbsie]

I agree with you guys in many respects and I have done a fair bit of my boating under sail. My point here however is that since there is so much of a crossover between the two types of boating, it would be nice, and fair, to represent motor boaters in, at least, 20% of the editorial. If they are writing articles about DIY Interiors, re-painting/coating hulls, davits, electrics, etc, why can't they be written with regard to motorboats alongside the articles about standing rigging and re-wiring masts.

I love all types of boating (although I never did get the knack of wind-surfing) and at the moment I am renovating a 25 year old river cruiser. Everything that I'm doing is a steep learning curve. I've never touched fibreglass before, never been a mechanic and haven't even considered woodwork since school over 30 years ago. There is so much that PBO could offer me and I'm sure a great many other readers that I don't get at present. To be honest, I currently find it somewhat elitist, which is something I couldn't imagine when I started buying it 20 years ago.

Like Claire Short, I'm going to stick with it and fight from the inside hoping that, at the end of the day, we will have a magazine that truly bonds the Sail & Power fraternity together.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/forbsie?&page=1>My Project</A>

 

[byron]

<font color=blue>Can I add my fruppence worf. It seems that some Raggies think that us Stinkies don't do jobs ourselves because we have money to burn hence don't need the sort of help contained in the covers of PBO. This is untrue on two counts. Firstly there are fahsands of stinkies out there running small inboard or outboard powered craft on a strict budget. Secondly if one does have a grander craft and can afford to call in a professional, finding one who will come and fix it immediately is another matter furthermore some owners love doing the work themselves, indeed one of the wealthiest dudes I know is never happier than when covered in oil with a spanner in his fist.
Sorry, I ramble

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk

 

[Gunfleet]

<<unleaded disappears at £ 50 an hour >>
I am just recovering from the shock of this. Don't you find a sailboat very attractive just from this point of view... leave alone the fact that you don't have to listen to anything except the water chuckling past?

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[vyv_cox]

"If you kept no more than three years mags, then I think some 95% of what you need to know would have been covered and if you cut out the relevant articles and file them then you could stop by the mag on a regular basis."

It's worse than that. I scanned and filed a large number of Nigel Calder articles from YM about 5/6 years ago. They are now reappearing in YM without modification.



<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[kimhollamby]

Am happy to correct you; it certainly doesn't 'sell' as many copies of its publication and furthermore I am not sure how its numbers are currently audited.

PBO's numbers are ABC audited, so actual copies in the hands of people that pay to read it.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Guest]

Don\'t you think that ....

the mags have lost their original slant .....

PBO was for the Practical DIY

Yachting Monthly for the more upmarket cheque book owner

etc.

I find that things are out of step and difficult to decide which mag to read ......

As to Raggie vs Stinkie ...... doesn't it self generate when we use such terms ???? For me boats are boats - I have Motor Sailer, an engine-less racer, a week-ender with small outboard ........ so I see from various angles ..... can't see the point of arguing - most points are relevant to most boats ......


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I only came - cos they said there was FREE Guinness !

 

[vyv_cox]

Entirely agree

I have taken YM by subscription for more than 15 years (although I don't think I fall into your cheque-book category) and buy PBO occasionally.

Although I do absolutely everything myself it has only occasionally been the case that PBO gave really useful advice for the more advanced jobs, seemingly concentrating more on the "Blue Peter" end of maintenance. Lately there do seem to be more articles focused on the more demanding DIYer and I buy copies that seem to contain such articles. Some of the recent team approaches to topics like assessing radar-plotters have been quite good, as have the technical articles written by outside experts, such as Professor Knox on anchors and Colin Jones, of course.

At the same time the content of YM has seemed to go more and more towards charters, holidays and exotic trips, much of which I don't even bother to read. The excellent deeply technical articles for which I used to buy the magazine have virtually disappeared. One could argue that as my expertise and knowledge have increased I find less of this stuff to be challenging, but I don't think so. There is still loads of stuff around on navigation, weather, construction etc that I really struggle to understand, but unfortunately little of it is in YM.

Conversely, quite a bit of it is now in PBO, hence my agreement with you. But PBO still remains my second choice, as much as anything because I don't enjoy the writing style of the main journalists and I think that some of the technical writing barely slips into second division.

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[Gunfleet]

self-adhesive practical boat owning

I couldn't agree more Vyv. I've read quite enough items about how to re-engine my boat from a Diahatsu van or how to change over to indirect cooling by sourcing parts from the spares bin of a tractor factors. There a load of really practical stuff PBO can cover (witness these message boards) without ever get around to the sticky back plastic. Which reminds me... which mag had an article maybe a year ago about yacht refurbishment including self adhesive teak veneer? I could sorely do with some of this stuff, but can I find it? Can I heck!

<hr width=100% size=1>

 

[FlyingSpud]

In truth, isn’t it the case that PBO is really a raggies magazine, but has to deal with engines as we raggies are all motor sailors now (except for a very few, such as the Pardeys) - hence the front page banner

<hr width=100% size=1>