PBO & the Trades Descriptions Act

[tr7v8]

Err, confused why would £ 50 per hour be an issue? It's a bit like saying I won't drive somewhere as the car uses petrol, so I'll go by pushbike. I've sailed in past in dinghys and whilst very satisfying short term like for a couple of hours. The thoughts of trundling along at 6 knots max for hours on end would bore me rigid.
Aside from mutiny from the wife if the weather were to turn bad. I stil remember shorly after getting our boat, working on it one weekend with the rain lashing down outside and the look on her face as our neighbours got into their oilies to go sailing. I did point out that aside from casting off we'd have been under the canopy, in the dry. I feel that the ability to get somewhere at 20knots cruise makes the destination the point of interest where as sailing it's in the journey.
eg. it's about an hour to the end of the Medway for me whereas it's a longish 3 hour sail for a yacht. Also I find having to work for a living during the week means I can plan my journey and know ho long it's going to take without being subject to the winds vagaries.
Not knocking either it's just different.

PS £ 50 per hour is 10-11 gallons per hour at cruise at £ 4.50 per gall. More at full chat!


<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[Gunfleet]

How you spend your £50s is your affair, Jim. I was just horrified at the idea of that much in fuel to run a boat. I make no criticism of you or other motor boaters. I spent £1500 on sails and £700 on rigging last year. Mind you, I'll expect them to last a while!

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[mike_kolling]

Its not all like that, I went to Bruges and back on £100 diesel - but there again I stuck to 8Knots.
However some friends did same trip at 20Knots and spent £300 each way.

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[StephenSails]

Kim, they are ABC as well I believe and they are shifting 60k a month (but not all of these are purchased) and increasing at some points of the year, PBO gets 49k ish actively purchased. So it would seem that PBO has a smaller readership yes?

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.yachtinguniverse.com

 

[byron]

<font color=blue>Speaking with my "I am the Chairman of an advertising agency hat on" I would point out that circulation figures provided by IPC are audited. Further to this if they wanted to they could point out that readership is probably three times that. Couple this to the certainty that a number of old copies also end up in waiting rooms and coffee tables. Then PBO is quite safe in their claims. Furthermore the shelf life of an advertisement in said magazine is thus proportionately longer.

<hr width=100% size=1>http://www.alexander-advertising.co.uk

 

[bob_tyler]

PBO is the biggest SELLING Yachting magazine (see ABC)

Most copies of All at Sea are given away.

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[bob_tyler]

If "getting there quickly" is the aim - a stinky.

If longer and more satisfying enjoyment getting there on a lovely sunny day - a raggie!

QED

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[bob_tyler]

To add to my note above:

PBO: Per issue (12) 50,013 total. Copies SOLD 49,486 (ABC Jan-Dec 2002)

All at Sea: Per issue (6) 37,604 total. Copies SOLD 664 (ABC Jul-Dec 2001 - No ABC Certificates for 2002!)

<hr width=100% size=1><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by bob_tyler on 20/03/2003 17:22 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[tr7v8]

"more satisfying enjoyment"

depends on your point of view, navigating a power boat at 15 + knots I find satisfying!

<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[kimhollamby]

No, please see Bob Tyler's note and you'll see the respective positions on ABCs. Free distribution is a very different animal to audited sold circulation.

All at Sea appears to sell many less newspapers than the smallest circulation magazines in the IPC Marine Magazine line-up.

In terms of readership Practical Boat Owner is strong enough to be listed in the National Readership Survey, which makes it unique among all boating titles. The last survey published places PBO at 231,000 readers.

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.nrs.co.uk/newindex5open.cfm?flag=gen>http://www.nrs.co.uk/newindex5open.cfm?flag=gen</A>

Even if All At Sea is managing to give away circa 60,000 per month (which might realistically indicate printing and distributing circa 90,000 , which I personally doubt) there's no way it is achieving a pass on rate of four for every copy picked out of the dispenser.

Not having a chew at All At Sea; they have a very capable news editor in Kate Laven. But it is not outperforming or outselling PBO by any measure.

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[Forbsie]

Sorry that this has drifted into quantity not quality as that was not my intention. Funnily enough, yesterday I came across a magazine entitled 'THE YACHTSMAN - SAIL and POWER' from winter 1945 and edited by K. Alard Coles. There was not one mention of a motorboat there either. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

I've decided that PBO should change their byline to 'Britain's Biggest Selling Yachting Magazine - RAGGIE & STINKPOT'. I've found that MBM has been excellent in recent months and has covered many of my DIY issues. Is it possible to switch titles mid-subscription? I think that my 2nd 6 month D/D for PBO has just gone through. Is it possible to switch to MBY or do I have to wait until the subscription is complete. I must admit, with PBO, MBM and CB all arriving through my letterbox within 2 days, I get the DT's waiting a full month for the next shot.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.arweb.co.uk/argallery/forbsie?&page=1>My Project</A>

 

[duncan]

how about a serious discount for taking all 3?
Given the marketing and distribution costs involved, together with the 'increased circulation' ; 5 quid a month for a packet containing MBM, YBM and PBO seems good all round............/forums/images/icons/smile.gif
Oh and for what it's worth I get 20knots for 4 quid an hour; which leaves me enough dosh for some rum to fill in that potentially wasted time a stinkie has when he has arrived 6 hours ahead of his m8 on a rag and stick.
Sampled some rather nice rum in Berry Bros on Pall Mall yesterday - should have enough for a decent tasting come the May bash...................

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[bob_tyler]

'THE YACHTSMAN - SAIL and POWER'

At one time edited by John Chamier, this was an up-market title, beautifully produced and probably read mainly by members of the Royal Yacht Squadron!

The title was sold, incorporated in another magazine and eventually the title became part of PBO's list of incorporated titles.

If you look back at PBO of two to three years ago and look at the last inside page where there should be an imprint at the bottom, you will see the long list of titles now incorporated in PBO.

As long as PBO continues to use a similar imprint, it retains the rights to these titles and stops others using them. I have noticed that the imprint has not appeared recently so they are in danger of losing all these titles! I understand that copyright law requires that the incorporated titles are printed once a year to maintain ownership. Whether this is still the law I don't know.

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[Evadne]

Didn't PBO take over a title called something like "Practical Motorboater" a decade or so ago because there weren't enough of them buying the mag to make it viable? If there were as many non-chequebook Stinkies as there are NCB Raggies then they would have their own magazine according to market forces and all that.
(I'm a Raggie who rarely uses the engine because it rarely works. When it does I use two pints an hour and sometimes reach 3 knots on flat water. Oh for a plastic caravan with a gigantic BMW in the bilges! )


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[kimhollamby]

I think you might be thinking about a title called 'Practical Motor Cruiser' which later became 'Motor Cruiser'.

No, PBO didn't take it over but it died a death in 1989. I worked on it between 1985-1987; it did many of the things that people were asking for at the time, small boat coverage, lots of DIY, not all that well but about as well as its budget would allow. Only sold circa 6,000 copies or so in the mid-1980s.

PBO was rumoured to be looking at a practical motorboating type launch at that time. EMAP actually got a bit closer to it in the late 1980s by nominally appointing an editor of a practical motorboating title, only to pull the plug. Same thing happened with Future when it was publishing Sailing Today and one or two others have had a look also.

Only new motorboating mag to make it into print was Motor Boats Monthly, first published in 1987.

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[oldgit]

First find your long and sunny day.........a stinkie /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Oooh look its still not dark and its nearly 5pm