Paperwork, paperwork, paperwork.............(Southerly's in particular)

[RickMac]

We are intending to cruise various other EU waters from next month onwards and, rather belatedly I know, we have been sifting through all our Southerly's paperwork to ensure it is in order (especially as we are aware that bureaucracy has been on the increase in some areas, notably in the Med) thus preventing rather than having to cure after the event!

Our Declaration of Conformity, normally located in your owners manual somewhere towards the rear (probably in the appendices) and listing all the relevant ISO/standards of comformity, appears to be signed and dated in 2001/2 by the company MD from then, rather than by the actual MD in situ on our vessel's launch date in 2008.

Do you have yours there? And, if so, are you able to offer the details of who signed and when and whether this ties in with your vessel's launch date? (happy to receive 'private' messages on this)

We are possibly worrying about this detail unnecessarily but, not wanting to fall foul of some EU jobsworth, we thought we'd try and check this out with a few other Southerly owners first to help us get our facts straight prior to contacting Northshore and appearing prize chumps.

(and, yes, we do know there is a Southerly Owners Association and have contacted them too but no feedback as yet!)

 

[Beadle]

Do you actually require this document?

There must be thousands of boats that have never had such a thing - mine for a start.

I know you have to show VAT has been paid (although I don't know why)

I really would be amazed if the Dutch tax inspectors knew (or cared) who was the MD of Southerly Yachts 10 years ago

Bye the bye I would have expected the Company Secretary to have signed this sort of document.

 

[Victoria Sponge]

Well that serves you right for having such a nice boat

 

[Tranona]

The chances of being asked for the certificate are Zero. The certificate is only required when a boat is first put on the market (sold by the builder or imported) and is policed by Trading Standards.

There is a lot of hot air talked about documentary requirements. Just follow the guidance from such bodies as the RYA and the Cruising Association and you won't go far wrong. In practice the only things you will be asked for routinely are registration document, passports, insurance certificate (for marinas) and in some countries an ICC. Useful to have are Bill of Sale and VAT receipt, but very rarely asked for.

 

[RickMac]

I have to advise that your 'zero chance' of this being required is firmly kicked into touch as I was on a friend's yacht that pulled into Rota last November and they were asked to produce exactly that document!

So has anybody out there and actually got one, particularly on a Southerly?

 

[FullCircle]

Our Jeanneau certificate is dated from 2003, we have a 2005 boat. This was the first of the series, and (I assume) is valid for that model, unless significant design changes were made. It is in the fron of our owners manaul, together with the RCD cert and original owner completed sheet.

 

[[2574]]

I have to advise that your 'zero chance' of this being required is firmly kicked into touch as I was on a friend's yacht that pulled into Rota last November and they were asked to produce exactly that document!

So has anybody out there and actually got one, particularly on a Southerly?

Yes I have got one in my Nauticat owners pack; not sure that helps you much though!

 

[Tranona]

I have to advise that your 'zero chance' of this being required is firmly kicked into touch as I was on a friend's yacht that pulled into Rota last November and they were asked to produce exactly that document!

So has anybody out there and actually got one, particularly on a Southerly?

Have a look on the RYA website. There is no specific RCD Certificate. What you need is covered by what you have in your owners handbook. It is the builder certifying that the boat complies with the requirements for a CE mark. The builder certifies and keeps the record itself.

As to being asked to produce the document, pre 1998 boats are exempt if in the EU/EEA at that date, or had been built in the EEA. Post 1998 EEA boats cannot be sold without it - so the offence occurs at sale. There is no requirement to show that the boat meets RCD subsequently - indeed most don't because as soon as you change any relevant equipment the chances are it ceases to meet the requirements. Where an individual boat may be asked is if there is any doubt about it meeting the RCD because, for example it was privately imported. In this case a post construction certificate would be needed.

Obviously can't comment directly on your friend's experience without knowing all the circumstances, so it could be a genuine concern about his specific boat or just a bored official looking for a bit of excitement!

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Obviously can't comment directly on your friend's experience without knowing all the circumstances, so it could be a genuine concern about his specific boat or just a bored official looking for a bit of excitement!

Why your surprise? The 'official' can ask to see anything he wants. Just because he asks doesn't mean it's an offence to fail to produce it.

I don't see anything untoward about the request. A supermarket security guard asked to check my shopping bags on Thursday. I was happy to let him take a look. He has no powers whatsoever to force me to allow him to check my bags but he had every right to make the request. You can't infer that people are legally required to submit to searches by Supermarket Security Guards from that!

A Spanish policeman asked to see my Camera once. Can we deduce from that that camera's are compulsory in Spain?

Now if RickMac had been prosecuted for failing to have it, that would be noteworthy, but being asked? Means nothing whatsoever.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

This whole obsession by boat owners with carrying an inch thick pile of paperwork around with them is getting out of hand..... blimey... you're meant to be enjoying yourselves instead of worrying about whether you've got an official 'green with white spots underpants license'!!!!!!

 

[Tranona]

And what makes you think my observation suggests I was surprised?

As usual you are making things up! (Whats new?)

All I was suggesting is that there may have been specific circumstances that prompted the request - and what your problems in the supermarket last Thursday have to do with it beats me!

As I suspected your temporary sense making did not last.

To the OP - suggest you ignore all this, Toad is not connected to the real world.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

This whole obsession by boat owners with carrying an inch thick pile of paperwork around with them is getting out of hand..... blimey... you're meant to be enjoying yourselves instead of worrying about whether you've got an official 'green with white spots underpants license'!!!!!!

It's getting insane. A minority of UK sailors are making France sound like a Police State. Nothing could be further from the truth in my experience. On the roads the French Police are far more tolerant than Uk police and in boats they're practically invisible. I see UKBA boats all the time around the UK coast. The two French Customs boats in the Cherbourg hardly ever seem to go out!

I suspect the people who find Foreign Officials unhelpful are bringing it on themselves. Either that or I'm even more charming than I realize which is also a strong possibility!

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

And what makes you think my observation suggests I was surprised?

I've re-read your post it and it certainly reads like you were surprised it happens and thought it shouldn't have happened. If that's not what you meant then sorry.

 

[Tranona]

A minority of UK sailors are making France sound like a Police State.

You should know as the minority consists of two - you and Tim!

Everyone else (if the posts on these fora are anything to go by) have no difficulties with French expectations.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

You should know as the minority consists of two - you and Tim!

Sorry if I've ever given that impression. My view is in fact the opposite - French Plod are fantastic. Maybe you missed this post???

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2805168&postcount=87

Everyone else (if the posts on these fora are anything to go by) have no difficulties with French expectations.

No difficulties? You said 50 per cent of the time you had difficulties. Don't you remember?

You said:
I have experienced all kinds of "official" behaviour, much of it quite different from the way officials behave in the UK. As many pleasant surprises as negative experiences.

Here:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2805172&postcount=88

So you've pissed off at least 50 per cent of the officials you meet!

 

[macd]

A suggestion to the OP: don't worry about documents. Just invite Toad and Tranona aboard (now there's a thought!) and whenever confronted by an official, go to the pub and leave the three of 'em to sort it out.

On second thoughts, maybe not.

 

[SHUG]

..worrying about whether you've got an official 'green with white spots underpants license'!!!!!!

Krikey that's, new, nobody told me about that, must've been asleep, must rush out and get one, where do I go, panic panic!!!!!

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

A suggestion to the OP: don't worry about documents. Just invite Toad and Tranona aboard (now there's a thought!) and whenever confronted by an official, go to the pub and leave the three of 'em to sort it out.

On second thoughts, maybe not.

I'd be a bit out of place on something clean and stylish like a 2008 Southerley. Pearls before swine...

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

..worrying about whether you've got an official 'green with white spots underpants license'!!!!!!

Krikey that's, new, nobody told me about that, must've been asleep, must rush out and get one, where do I go, panic panic!!!!!

I believe you can get them from Prince Andrew for a small fee.....

 

[Tranona]

I've re-read your post it and it certainly reads like you were surprised it happens and thought it shouldn't have happened. If that's not what you meant then sorry.

Apologies accepted this time - just be more careful about reading what people write rather than making up your own meaning.