Overtaking (non boaty)

[tcm]

Re: except....

..i understood that the initial reason he hauled down the ferrari was that he used the foglights. No, not cos it was illegal, just cos people who momentarily use wipers or lights are unfamilar with the car, nicked it, see?

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[tr7v8]

The plank in the Ferrari actually had his fog lights on and turned them off when he saw plod, personally a hanging offence, I just wish they'd nick some of the planks around here who do it. Not just youngsters but older people including a driving school car the other week.
Did think it was a bit of penis envy on plods part overall though.



<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[Rabbie]

They are Police Officers - not 'Plods' !.
I agree about the 'holier than thou' attitude which sometimes comes across, but who better to try and get the message of good driving across than the guys who have to clean up and investigate these horrific accidents. Don't blame the messengers - blame the selfish, dangerous, inattentive, arrogant and loutish drivers they, quite rightly, have to 'deal' with.
Rab.

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[robp]

Re: Lost art of overtaking

Those of us over 50 grew up having to overtake if we wanted to "press on". Now there are more and more M ways and dual carriageways, people don't bother so much when on single carriageways. It always seems to me that motor cycles (I'm a biker too), are accepted, indeed expected as overtakers. Whereas cars do seem to be frowned upon. The, first car behind, does have a "responsibility", to overtake or leave a useful and safe distance - in order not to cause frustration and danger behind.

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[sailbadthesinner]

Re: B4DHY

aah
you see i never get those i just see B4DY
yours
W4NK3R



<hr width=100% size=1><font color=red>I can't walk on water, but I do run on Guinness</font color=red>

 

[tr7v8]

Sorry I though Plod was a common and quite polite nick name under the circumstances.
Lets face it the vast majority of people whom they were targetting wouldn't have watched the program and those of us who did are questioning the message and the way of delivery, so the holier than thou perception devalued the message completely.
Personally I have an ever lower respect for our local police force and I know most of my peers are feeling the same. Most of this is down to the police becoming the messenger for a Goverment that is increasing loosing the plot as regards Law & Order. And this despite a huge increase in Police funding in the Kent & Sussex area.
A recent piece on our local TV concerned the complete Yob rule on some of the estates in North Kent and police not responding, a CI came on saying that they are not actually causing an a problem etc. Yet this is a huge issue locally and a day later we see the Home Secretary delivering a message about zero tolerance.

If people see the Police going soft on crime and then persecuting motorists then sooner or later their will be a huge backlash and it's the police on the front line.

PS did it really take 2 Traffic cars to chase the motorcyclist??????






<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[Sybarite]

Recently in my French registered car in Surrey, a police car turned round to sit on my tail. After being there for 2 or 3 miles they pulled me over to tell me that I had done 33 mph in a 30 mph limit.... They gave me a long lecture on how I was risking lives before they graciously let me go with a warning.

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[Benny1]

Re: Lost art of overtaking

Hmmm I can see what you mean.

I notice it most on my regular summer journey from central London to N Wales (to the boat) where I have about 180 miles of motorway and just over 100 miles of single carriageway.

They are great roads for scenery and driving, but if I had to do 25-40mph all the way there on these roads it would add well over an hour to my journey, so I overtake (safely) and usually encounter all sorts of reactions (the self righteous shaking of heads, often by both front seat occupants, seems to be a particualr favourite).

Also, there seem to be a whole league of drivers who travel at 40-45mph whatever the speed limit may be, 30, 40, 50 or 60, they religeously stick at 42mph. Personally I drive quickly on a de restricted road where conditions allow and always slow right down to the speed limit in villages.

To illustrate my point, I was travelling up to Wales first thing last Saturday and came upon a large white van that was travelling at the pre-requisite 40 in a 60 zone. I followed for 2 miles as there was nowhere to overtake, then had an opportunity and went. About half a mile later there was a small village so I travelled through it at 30, only to have the van zoom up behind at 40 and start flashing at me and beeping its horn in an attepmpt to make me go faster, he even attempeted to overtake me in the village, but was thwarted by a small hill. Once the 30 zone ended I sped up and never saw him again.

I have found this to not be an isolated occourence.

What seems to be the problem is not speed per se, as the leftie lobby would have you think, but the wrongful application of it. Not just in the conditions or nature of the road but by vehicles of a totally different calibre. It seems bizarre that a Porsche 911 Turbo should be governed by the same rules as a large transit van when they have totally different dynamics. Going back to TCM's earlier post it's similar to his Lambo/cavalier comparison. In the old days the policemen were the ones that added reason to these rules and either gave you a ticking off or issued you with a ticket depending upon the severity of an offence.

Now when we have zero tolerance anti speeding at any cost policing, speed cameras that flash you for doing 37mph on an empty road at 2am and un marked vans (amusingly called "Safety Vans" and not "here we are hiding behind a nice big bush about to releive you of £60 vans") and men with tripods hidden at the edge of bridges overlooking motorways, there seems to be no reason to the application of laws implenented almost 40 years ago.

ps will someone talk to me about boats now. I have made one long post about property and now another on cars...how about my third interest, nice big shiny plastic things with big engines (sorry to all those sailors on here)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Benny1 on 14/03/2003 19:25 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Anchorite]

Re: Peaceful undertaking

It's that sort of reckless behaviour that gets France a bad name: next thing
we know, there'll be anti-French headlines in the newspapers...

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Lost art of overtaking

I like you regularly drive through North Wales, mostly single country roads.

I find the people who give me the most respect, i.e. will allow me past on fast roads or will back away from the car in front of them to let me past are those in fast/sports cars. Mr and Mrs Vicar will keep me in my place for miles. I drive a prelude VTEC which is pretty hot off the mark so I usually like to make some progress, nothing makes me happier than overtaking people when I am towing my trailer.

People seem to choose their gear and speed for the day.

I also will never do more than 30 through the towns, but out through Clocaenog for instance, watch my dust. Incidentaly on the odd occasion that I drive my girlfriends polo 1L I tend to be overtaking all the way too and I always go easy as it does not hold the road too well, I consider myself safe, I never take risks but I am getting paranoid, people flash me for overtaking, wave me and shout abuse.

Maybe I should join the 30mph parade through wales to appease the people who cannot drive without street lights and barriers.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>

 

[Ohdrat]

mm can see your point about the cop being reckless but have to say the lorries (and the notorious white vans although not hgv) frequently move out a lane without any signals and evidently without checking their mirrors..

Basically my experience of this happening to me (at totally legal speeds) makes me think that white vans up don't give a flying f**k about anything smaller than them and behave like thugs.

So yeah I'm glad the driver of the Artic got hammered and wish it would happen to all the f**kers that behave like that.

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[Benny1]

Re: Lost art of overtaking

Glad to hear it's not just me then.

If I say this sort of stuff to my Dad then I get the "you drive too fast lecture"...but he has gone whistling past me many a time on the motorway without realising I was there, but if you say that to him all he says is that his car is bigger, quicker and can stop faster.

He had a point a few yrs ago when I was a student with my extremely fast (not) 1.3 fiesta, but now I have a quicker car he still uses the same argument! Mind you I followed him back to Manchester from Abersoch last Sunday and could only just keep up, he lost me totally for about 20 miles!

As for the fact that its those in quick cars who are more considerate to a driver who is pushing on, I have a theory, albeit a little right wing. It is that those who have slow cars have probably never driven a fast car and don't know how much easier and safer it is to overtake in a quick car than a slow rep-box. Thus they judge every manoeuvre you make on what their car is capable of...especially when full of family and kids.

By the way, where is Crynlomrstugdn or whatever you said before?

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[Jools_of_Top_Cat]

Re: Lost art of overtaking

Clocaenog is between Ruthin and Betws-y-Coed on the A494. The RAC rally and many others do the forest stages there. Nice winding good condition A roads with low hedges so you can see for miles, well worth the trip.

If you fancy a nice drive with a few good stop off points try this.

From the A55 turn off onto the Mold road the A494
then follow directions to Ruthin, at the Texaco garage in Ruthin turn left onto the bala road.
this is still the A494 continue over the mini roundabout and try not to go to slow when it becomes deristricted.
turn right onto the A5 towards betsw-y-Coed and stay on for about 8 miles
turn left onto B4407 toward Blaenau Ffestiniog across moor, nearly single track
Once in Blaenau Ffestiniog head towards Porthmadog
then towards Pwllheli and on to Abersoch

It may take a little longer (or shorter in summer when A55 is blocked) but you will have far more fun, there are many places to stop and eat sightsee, a short divertsion would take you to the conwy falls (very nice stop off).

To me it is part of the sailing weekend, I love it.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue> Julian </font color=blue>

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ukstaffords.com>http://www.ukstaffords.com</A>

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

Tim

It surprised me that the police allowed this to be shown, as soon as the artic touched the third lane I was hitting the brakes, but the police car continued on and he the officer said I thought I could make it, I wonder how many times he has heard that one. This only proved the point speed kills when somebody else does something unexpected or against the rules. As you point out the bend in the road meant that the police car was not in view of the artic driver. I think a good driver must expect the unexpected and allow for it.
When the lights turn green can I assume its safe to speed off, no somebody may be crossing on red (they no doubt think they can make it!) so I look to check then go, no good in my view being right but dead. If somebody heads towards me down a oneway road and I drive into them its ok I can totally blame them, I think not.
The whole programme gave the impression that if you want to speed then join the police force.
It also appears to be a sad fact that you are more likely to get away with burglary than speeding and the law seams to be saying speeding is a greater crime?
Its a crazy world.
Trevor


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[Observer]

>>It surprised me that the police allowed this to be shown>>. Interesting point. Do the police have editorial control?

I agree with everything you said except >>This only proved the point speed kills when somebody else does something unexpected or against the rules>>. Safe driving is "defensive driving" - which to me means assessing probabilities not assuming improbabilities. It's not reasonable to expect driving behaviour to be dictated by assuming the totally unexpected. If we all did that, we would (for example) slow to a crawl every time we pass a T junction (having right of way) if there is a vehicle wiating to turn and which could, conceivably, pull out, at the last second, right in front of us.

The critical point in this case, in my mind, was that the artic was signalling to move right and the traffic cop, on his own admission, assumed that it would not do what it signalled it was intending to do. I've read some comment on other forums about this programme where posters have suggested traffic cop was careless (= "driving without due care and attention"). I disagree. The driving behaviour shown by the traffic cop was worse than "careless" - it was "reckless" (= lacking in prudence or caution [OED]) which, in driving offences, is the same as "dangerous driving". He should have been charged accordingly.



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[BrendanS]

A lot of people seem to be commenting on this incident that either never watched the programme, or did not observe what was going on.

There was no reason for the lorry driver to move to the third lane. It's illegal to do so and so reasonable that the officer would assume that he wouldn't go there

You could see quite clearly from the camera angle, as it was a sweeping left hand bend, that there were no vehicles in lane two, so no reason for the lorry to move out to overtake anyone, illegal or otherwise. He also came out all the way from the inside (lane 1) in one maneouvre. No vehicles to overtake so what the heck was he up to?

He could quite clearly have seen the flashing headlamps of the police car from his nearside mirror while in lane one through the left hand bend.

My guess is he saw the car being chased, and the police car in pursuit, and decided to do a bit of 'Convoy' type blocking. No one could ever prove it.

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[tr7v8]

Lorry drivers comment was actually that "I was moving to be in the right hand lane to turn right" This was on the M180 which has a couple of weird lane changes and junctions, especially fom memory at that end.
I think you'll find our main issues were
A. that the police car was going so fast 120ish.
B. That because of the LH sweeping bend the lorry driver quite likely WOULDN'T have seen the police car.
C. Most importantly despite the fact that the lorry had signalled his intentions and was already over onto the 3rd lane the Police officer made no avoiding action at eg. no braking, no 2 tones or blues etc. and went for the gap.

Whilst I wouldn't make excuses for lorry drivers as most of them drive like Tw%ts I think in the case the lorry wasn't wholly in the wrong and certainly the PC was over 50% to blame.


<hr width=100% size=1>Jim

Draco 2500

 

[BrendanS]

Whatever the reasons, I do agree with the point earlier that once the lorry started straying into third lane I'd have been stamping on the brakes. Pretty silly to go for it.

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[alanporter]

Having read all those postings , thank God I live in Canada.

<hr width=100% size=1>Alan Porter

 

[Ohdrat]

Re: You wanna try..

the Highlands in peak caravan season....grrrrrrrrrrrr a lot of the time it is impossible to over take these road hogs as there is a steady stream of traffic in opposite direction. They drive at 40mph when there's a view or they're trying to spot the seals from the Cromarty bridge, they have literally miles of que behind them and they wonder why peeps hate them? Oh and they never pull over despite the signs to "Allow Overtaking as Frustration Kills" signs (yes we really do have them here).

Jools is it legal to overtake with a trailer??? thought the top speed of a vehicle trailing was 55??? correct me if I'm wrong?? not sure how keen I would be on being overtaken by a car with a trailer (paticularly a long one).. how do you judge your distance?? well obviously you do but it must take some adjusting from overtaking without to overtaking with a trailer?

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