Outdrives - major work

[Greg2]

I don't like to ask! Some years I guess.

Made me chuckle

Man maths and burying one’s head in the sand are entirely legitimate practices when it comes to dealing with the cost of running a boat

Didn’t mean for this to be a depressing thread . I think there have been some very useful contributions and it has sparked some healthy discussion.

The space factor is an important one when thinking about outdrives and is certainly a factor in us considering a smaller boat this time round. As I said at the outset, we have had both outdrives and shafts (two boats for each) and whilst I much prefer the simplicity and low maintenance/cost of shafts, smaller boats with shafts don’t tend to be the type of boat that will work for us so it is very likely to be back to the ‘devil’s egg-whisks’ if we stick with power.

 

[petem]

They probably aren't performing that level of maintenance,but then how many of them go out to sea and how many go above 10 knots? I'd suggest ( maybe I'm wrong) a boat on the broads has a much easier life than a boat on the sea (obviously I'm making generalisations).

Exactly. And how many have 270-300hp engines and how many of those drives aren't full of emulsified oil?

Bigplumbs, what's your servicing regime for drives then if you're questioning the 'level of servicing' described above?

 

[Bigplumbs]

Exactly. And how many have 270-300hp engines and how many of those drives aren't full of emulsified oil?

Bigplumbs, what's your servicing regime for drives then if you're questioning the 'level of servicing' described above?

firstly I tend to do my own work on the boat rather than trust it to the so called professionals (You know people who set off your engine bay extinguishers) or in the case of a boat I bought claim they have changed the anodes when they havn't.

I don't have a service regime as you call it or as I call it following habits often driven by OCD.

I do the work on my boat that is necessary when it is necessary. The issue is that so many people have so many opinions on this. For example some insist an impeller is replaced every year. I have boats where it is still going strong after 6 years.

Finally I was not questioning what others do I simply stated an observation about boats on the broads.

What I will say is people (often with loads of money) get so called maintenance work done every year that is quite unnecessary and still get big issues with their boats. Others on more modest budgets cant afford the regeims you mention.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Exactly. And how many have 270-300hp engines and how many of those drives aren't full of emulsified oil?

Bigplumbs, what's your servicing regime for drives then if you're questioning the 'level of servicing' described above?

As for the engine size you quote on the broads................ You would be amazed how many there are with a pair of monsters in them....... Have you ever been on the Broads ?

 

[Greg2]

What I will say is people (often with loads of money) get so called maintenance work done every year that is quite unnecessary

I tend to agree with that but only to a certain extent. For example engine oil changes are not something to be missed IMHO but belt replacement could be less frequent. It is also influenced by what the boat is used for, so for a sea boat the consequences of things going wrong could be far worse than for your average Broads cruiser. For this reason we have always tended to err on the side of caution because we want to reduce the risks of problems halfway across the North Sea or Thames Estuary.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I tend to agree with that but only to a certain extent. For example engine oil changes are not something to be missed IMHO but belt replacement could be less frequent. It is also influenced by what the boat is used for, so for a sea boat the consequences of things going wrong could be far worse than for your average Broads cruiser. For this reason we have always tended to err on the side of caution because we want to reduce the risks of problems halfway across the North Sea or Thames Estuary.

I would agree with most of that except the oil change thing. I think changing oil every years is quite unnecessary and every 2 - 3 years is ok (I don't believe the whole acids in the oil thing either).

I know it is not a boat but I bought a 5 year old mondeo car for £5000. I used it for 9 years and the engine did 10 - 20 times more work per year than any of our boats would ever do. It never had an oil change and was never serviced (as people like to call it) in all that time, Never had any significant work done on it in all that time and in the end I sold it for scrap for £100.

Why do we think our boats need all this so called servicing

 

[julians]

This is my drive servicing regime (dph drive)

Every year: change oil,change anodes, change impeller, repaint antifouling.

Every other year: the above plus change bellows,inspect ujs

If anything dodgy is found eg emulsified oil then also fix the problem.

 

[Bigplumbs]

This is my drive servicing regime (dph drive)

Every year: change oil,change anodes, change impeller, repaint antifouling.

Every other year: the above plus change bellows,inspect ujs

If anything dodgy is found eg emulsified oil then also fix the problem.

Do you do the work yourself and what does that cost each year for information

Dennis

 

[petem]

firstly I tend to do my own work on the boat rather than trust it to the so called professionals (You know people who set off your engine bay extinguishers) or in the case of a boat I bought claim they have changed the anodes when they havn't.

With fire extinguishers, in Spain you have no choice in other than to get them serviced and certified by a certified firm. I have no idea if the accidental discharge could have been prevented or not (it was out of my eyeline) but I do prefer to be present when possible when people are working on my boat.

What I will say is people (often with loads of money) get so called maintenance work done every year that is quite unnecessary and still get big issues with their boats. Others on more modest budgets cant afford the regeims you mention.

If you think I've got loads of money you're mistaken, that's why I own a third share in a boat not a whole one.

As for regimes, the manual and every official and independent Volvo engineer I've spoken to says that as a minimum the oil should be changed annually and the bellow every other year. The manual doesn't recommend a vacuum test but this is cheap to do and makes perfect sense to me. If you want to cut corners or feel this level of maintenance is overkill then that's fine by me!

As for having been to the Broads, I can't recall ever visiting. Do the boats with big engines ever get to run them at full load or even at a fast cruise?

 

[Bigplumbs]

With fire extinguishers, in Spain you have no choice in other than to get them serviced and certified by a certified firm. I have no idea if the accidental discharge could have been prevented or not (it was out of my eyeline) but I do prefer to be present when possible when people are working on my boat.



If you think I've got loads of money you're mistaken, that's why I own a third share in a boat not a whole one.

As for regimes, the manual and every official and independent Volvo engineer I've spoken to says that as a minimum the oil should be changed annually and the bellow every other year. The manual doesn't recommend a vacuum test but this is cheap to do and makes perfect sense to me. If you want to cut corners or feel this level of maintenance is overkill then that's fine by me!

As for having been to the Broads, I can't recall ever visiting. Do the boats with big engines ever get to run them at full load or even at a fast cruise?

The people you mention who suggest the timescales for taking things off the engines and putting new ones on are those with a vested interest in selling the said bits or perhaps doing the work. I think we need to use our own eyes and experience rather than just follow what such people write down. For example how often have you or anyone else removed an impeller and thought that looks as good as the new one, or changed the oil and thought my that oil looks good. If you have perhaps it is because it is all ok for at least another year.

If you pay it done what proof do you have that it has been done (and I don't mean a piece of paper)

I was not aiming the loads of money comment at you Pete

As for the big boats on the broads some do get to go for it on Breydon Water and some go out to sea at Gt Yarmouth or Lowestoft but I suspect it is only a few

Dennis

 

[Boat2016]

I would agree with most of that except the oil change thing. I think changing oil every years is quite unnecessary and every 2 - 3 years is ok (I don't believe the whole acids in the oil thing either).

I know it is not a boat but I bought a 5 year old mondeo car for £5000. I used it for 9 years and the engine did 10 - 20 times more work per year than any of our boats would ever do. It never had an oil change and was never serviced (as people like to call it) in all that time, Never had any significant work done on it in all that time and in the end I sold it for scrap for £100.

Why do we think our boats need all this so called servicing

I look at it in that an oil change costs a lot less than a replacement engine and feel better knowing it’s been done every year, there’s many people who think they know better than the professionals but I always find one I can trust, let’s be honest there’s rogues in all trades so I don’t let it put me off getting my engines properly looked after.

 

[julians]

Do you do the work yourself and what does that cost each year for information

Dennis

I dont do the work myself, it costs approx £600 for the every year service and I think about 1200 for the every other year service. This is in Mallorca if that makes any difference to costs, I suspect it's a bit more than you would pay in the uk

 

[Momac]

Pete you forgot the biggie. Outdrives increases interior space dramatically. More (useable) boat for less cost purchase and berthing. People forget to factor that gem in. And the cost saving there is very significant.

And engine access is better with outdrive.

 

[Momac]

Are you trimming your F33 correctly? If you read enough boat tests in various mags, you soon get a picture of drives being more efficient than 20%. I guess it also depends on the type of use you are doing. Are those trips typically mostly on the plane, or is there lots of slow speed stuff too.

When I've got more time, i'll be interested to see if i can find any original boat test data for the F36 and the F33. Would be genuinely interested to see the fuel consumption difference at around 20-25 knots.

The comparison is at 20 to 23 knots over 150 miles or so plus some slow speed but most fuel spent on the plane.
I trim the legs up until the boat feels stable which is plus1. May be I should apply some trim tab. I generally do not use the tabs and have them set level with the hull.

 

[Bigplumbs]

I look at it in that an oil change costs a lot less than a replacement engine and feel better knowing it’s been done every year, there’s many people who think they know better than the professionals but I always find one I can trust, let’s be honest there’s rogues in all trades so I don’t let it put me off getting my engines properly looked after.

You use the word Properly looked after what do you mean by that. Also why change oil every year, a year is just an arbitrary time period, why not every 15.5 months for example I suspect the life of oil is not determined by the orbit of the earth around the sun.

The cost of an oil change is indeed far less than the cost of a replacement engine but are you suggesting that an oil change every 2 years will mean you will need a new engine.

Peace of mind is an interesting concept. In my view the manuals that are written are designed to upset our peace of mind and in so doing upset our wallets and put money from ours into theirs.

It is not a question of knowing better it is a question of looking and learning and gaining experience of what is actually required

 

[BruceK]

Dennis, I feel if a strict service interval is not maintained then longevity is affected. i.e. Once a boat reaches ~10 years plus you will clearly feel the affects of not having undergone a strict regime. Thereafter what you initially saved my come back to haunt you or the next owner. Hopefully he would have noticed this during acquisition and also reduced his bid accordingly if offer at all. In which case the original owner gets to feel the bite regardless.

 

[Bigplumbs]

Dennis, I feel if a strict service interval is not maintained then longevity is affected. i.e. Once a boat reaches ~10 years plus you will clearly feel the affects of not having undergone a strict regime. Thereafter what you initially saved my come back to haunt you or the next owner. Hopefully he would have noticed this during acquisition and also reduced his bid accordingly if offer at all. In which case the original owner gets to feel the bite regardless.

But Bruce did I not gather that you had as you call it a strict regime but still copped for a £6000 bill

 

[Greg2]

I would agree with most of that except the oil change thing. I think changing oil every years is quite unnecessary and every 2 - 3 years is ok (I don't believe the whole acids in the oil thing either).

I know it is not a boat but I bought a 5 year old mondeo car for £5000. I used it for 9 years and the engine did 10 - 20 times more work per year than any of our boats would ever do. It never had an oil change and was never serviced (as people like to call it) in all that time, Never had any significant work done on it in all that time and in the end I sold it for scrap for £100.

Why do we think our boats need all this so called servicing

Well, I am not sufficiently well informed about the acids thing in oil to disagree but I do know that metal against metal wears and that oil prevents that to a large extent. It therefore seems prudent to change the oil regularly to ensure that it keeps on doing it’s job effectively. Evidence of such is also handy at re-sale and absence is a concern, certainly for me.

Been to sea regularly on all four of our boats based on the Broads so always kept up with maintenance

 

[BruceK]

But Bruce did I not gather that you had as you call it a strict regime but still copped for a £6000 bill

Yes. But remember. I only paid 25k for my boat because it was bought as a project boat. I think I got my money's worth even if I had to pump a not inconsiderable sum into it. The P.O. lost a considerable amount in the transactions, which he wasn't shy to bemoan. And this despite him pumping that amount into engine rebuilds alone. C'est la vie

 

[JerryC]

I'm late to this thread but have read it all. I've owned boats with outboards, outdrives and shafts, in that order. Outboards were a combo of fun and a PITA, but you could take them home over winter (if they hadn't been nicked) and do your best to prepare them for next season. Similarly with outdrives, and they were much much quieter in use. I'm shocked at the serious faults reported on here with ODs and the cost to fix. As stated above, I can confirm that a massive benefit with ODs is that you can change the props from a dinghy lashed to the swim platform.

Not sure of the cost/benefit of this to the OD gearbox oil discussion, but I send a sample of my engine oil to a lab every autumn, they send back a spectrum analysis report which indicates the presence of any metals (wear) or unexpected stuff (contamination), with a graph comparing with the last few year's results. Based on the trend and my engine hours, I decide whether to change the oil now or next year.