Orcas, Portugal and Unexpected Inspections

[doug748]

In PNG when I was there, long pig was always considered to have been a Highland thing. It wasn’t a big issue - “rascals” were - and, I gather, are - the problem. Outbreaks of “kuru”, a really nasty disease related to BSE, were caused by eating human brains.

I read the story of the whaling ship Essex, out of one of the US East Coast ports, which was sunk by a whale in the Pacific in the 19c. Its a harrowing tale and just to bring things full circle, the survivors ended up eating the unlucky ones one by one.

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[Rappey]

the possability of doning a blow up doll

With their sophisticated echo location/sonar and from what I've read - they would see through it, literally. It's suggested they may have x-ray like detection skills.

tbh i doubt that they would ram a solid object like a sail

Why not ? At up to 11 tons I can't see a thin bit of grp would be much of a challenge.
A wooden yacht was rammed and sunk in the Pacific but the people were left alone when they got in their life raft.

Pbs .org has a good page with many videos and descriptions of many different hunting skills orcas posses such as throwing themselves onto a beach to grab a seal
Killer Whale Hunting Strategies

 

[cherod]

With their sophisticated echo location/sonar and from what I've read - they would see through it, literally. It's suggested they may have x-ray like detection skills.

Yes , i had considerd that , and thot about suggesting inserting some moving object , like a vibrator but thot that was one suggestion too far !!?

 

[cherod]

With their sophisticated echo location/sonar and from what I've read - they would see through it, literally. It's suggested they may have x-ray like detection skills.


Why not ? At up to 11 tons I can't see a thin bit of grp would be much of a challenge.
A wooden yacht was rammed and sunk in the Pacific but the people were left alone when they got in their life raft.

Pbs .org has a good page with many videos and descriptions of many different hunting skills orcas posses such as throwing themselves onto a beach to grab a seal
Killer Whale Hunting Strategies

If i may , have you ever touched / felt a dolphins ( orca family ) nose , it feels like smooth wet rubber , there is no obvious bone , scales or any protection , not the kind of thing you would be using to ram against a solid object .

 

[Rappey]

they paraded around the boat with pieces of rudder on their foreheads. Like trophies.

That is quite amazing, like they are flipping you the bird .
I saw a youtube video where the boat was in reverse and the orcas were following it right under the bow.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

If i may , have you ever touched / felt a dolphins ( orca family ) nose , it feels like smooth wet rubber , there is no obvious bone , scales or any protection , not the kind of thing you would be using to ram against a solid object .

But the melon - the forehead, so to speak - is designed for ramming attacks in the Odontocetae. It provides shock absorption, and is used by Sperm whales and, I understand, by Killer whales to attack other whales. Ashley, he of the knots, wrote a very interesting book about the last days of the Nantucket sperm whale fishery. In it he describes the melon of Sperm whales as being solid and resistant. Killer whales are fairly closely related to Sperm whales, and are known to use ramming attacks, for example to break up and overturn ice floes. The link I gave earlier to Scott's Last Expedition describes just such a ramming attack on ice floes.

 

[Rappey]

If i may , have you ever touched / felt a dolphins

I have not ?. I don't think I would jump off my boat to join them either, they are big !
What sort of damage can their tail do ?

 

[Poey50]

I copied this from a comment on another Orca attack video. I'm going to check whether this is the same incident as that reported on the Cruisers Forum which also managed to avoid damage by motoring backwards. interesting detail here that there was no attempt to attack the rudder head on - only from the side risking the prop blade.

"We were attacked by two killer whales on the same site (4 or 5 miles southwest of sines) in early September this year. We were traveling on a 33 sailboat and the way we managed to defend our rudder was to launch a dinghy in the bow and motoring slowly aft. The orcas spent 80% of their time attacking our dinghy and when they came to our helm, they were forced to attack it from the bow side, which was less comfortable for them because they need to avoid of the keel and propeller. The attack lasted 2 and a half hours and only caused damage to the dinghy."

Here's a second-hand account that seems bona fide - reported on Cruisers Forum. This seems to be from August 2021 - perhaps the first report of this solution being used.

"A Portuguese sailor from Madeira - Marc Herminio - has just fended off 2 Orca attacks with the simplest solution...
1- Sails down immediately
2- Start engine
3- Put boat in reverse 2/3knots
4- Have a drink and wait 15 mins
Propeller protects the ruder, the orcas go away!"

 

[cherod]

I have not ?. I don't think I would jump off my boat to join them either, they are big !
What sort of damage can their tail do ?

they can crush your rib cage or knock you out easily

 

[cherod]

That is quite amazing, like they are flipping you the bird .
I saw a youtube video where the boat was in reverse and the orcas were following it right under the bow.

i have not seen that , do you have a name ?

 

[cherod]

I copied this from a comment on another Orca attack video. I'm going to check whether this is the same incident as that reported on the Cruisers Forum which also managed to avoid damage by motoring backwards. interesting detail here that there was no attempt to attack the rudder head on - only from the side risking the prop blade.

"We were attacked by two killer whales on the same site (4 or 5 miles southwest of sines) in early September this year. We were traveling on a 33 sailboat and the way we managed to defend our rudder was to launch a dinghy in the bow and motoring slowly aft. The orcas spent 80% of their time attacking our dinghy and when they came to our helm, they were forced to attack it from the bow side, which was less comfortable for them because they need to avoid of the keel and propeller. The attack lasted 2 and a half hours and only caused damage to the dinghy."

Here's a second-hand account that seems bona fide - reported on Cruisers Forum. This seems to be from August 2021 - perhaps the first report of this solution being used.

"A Portuguese sailor from Madeira - Marc Herminio - has just fended off 2 Orca attacks with the simplest solution...
1- Sails down immediately
2- Start engine
3- Put boat in reverse 2/3knots
4- Have a drink and wait 15 mins
Propeller protects the ruder, the orcas go away!"

progress perhaps

 

[Mistroma]

Well , some may have seen / read / heard of an instance where a towed inflatesble dingy was of considerable distraction during one interaction ( their term , not mine ) i am surprised that there has not been more mention of such a tactic , successful or otherwise , Also , the possability of doning a blow up doll ( i am sure many of you know the type of thing ?) with some typical northern european yachty garb and tossing that in , be interesting as to whither they might “ attack “ / interact ( omg ) at all , that may allay or confirm the concern / fears ( / paranoia ) of the likes of Kukri or Artic man ?

Oh yes, really good idea to give them something dressed up as a human and encourage them to play with it. Trying to teach them about new human shaped things to throw around is just what we need. A well thought out plan.

 

[Mistroma]

But the melon - the forehead, so to speak - is designed for ramming attacks in the Odontocetae. It provides shock absorption, and is used by Sperm whales and, I understand, by Killer whales to attack other whales. Ashley, he of the knots, wrote a very interesting book about the last days of the Nantucket sperm whale fishery. In it he describes the melon of Sperm whales as being solid and resistant. Killer whales are fairly closely related to Sperm whales, and are known to use ramming attacks, for example to break up and overturn ice floes. The link I gave earlier to Scott's Last Expedition describes just such a ramming attack on ice floes.

I certainly remember reading about dolphins ramming sharks and probably saw a program somewhere. The long bony snout was quite hard and I thought Orca had a similar but less pronounced structure. I suspect it will be underneath the melon and would be used instead.

EDIT:
I decided to do a quick check to find a comparison. Apparently it is called the rostrum and it is situated just beneath the melon. A dolphin's rostrum is more pronounced and used to ram things. I didn't see a direct comparison with the rostrum of an Orca. It just seems reasonable to assume they'd use that area for the same purpose.

 

[Poey50]

I've read quite a few accounts now on several forums and seen many videos and also read thousands of words speculating on motives, origins of the behaviour, scores of potential solutions from benign to retaliatory, and heated pro and anti diatribes.

Instead of all that I think a solutions-focussed approach might be better. Rather than trying to arrive at a complex understanding of the problem (which tends, so far, to be low on fact and high on opinion) you simply try to gather up exceptions to the problem - times when the problem wasn't as bad as expected or indeed seemed to be solved.

I've seen some video of boats following the advice to shut everything down and lie-a-hull. And there seems to be other verified accounts of this helping - hence it is now offered as the main advice. Nevertheless it doesn't seem to be a complete solution - but perhaps has helped to minimise damage.

There have been several reports of a Portuguese sailor, Marc Herminio, which describe an incident in August of this year. He found that taking his sail down and motoring backwards he was able to avoid damage from a pod of 10 orcas. Some Googling of his name came up with this online picture and some short text which, with the help of Google Translate - describe the encounter very briefly, as above. ″Já acompanhei muitas baleias e golfinhos mas nunca vi isto″

And as previously mentioned, there is a more recent account of a 33 foot yacht attacked by two orcas for two and a half-hours. The boat was motored astern at around 3 knots and towed an inflatable dinghy at the bow. The dinghy was wrecked but there was no damage to the rudder.

If anyone else is aware of verifiable solutions or part-solutions it would be good to hear of them. It is completely possible for good solutions to emerge over time without any understanding of causes.

 

[cherod]

I've read quite a few accounts now on several forums and seen many videos and also read many thousands of words speculating on motives, origins of the behaviour, scores of potential solutions from benign to retaliatory, and heated pro and anti diatribes.

Instead of all that I think a solutions-focussed approach might be better. Rather than trying to arrive at a complex understanding of the problem (which tends, so far, to be low on fact and high on opinion) you simply try to gather up exceptions to the problem - times when the problem wasn't as bad as expected or indeed seemed to be solved.

I've seen some video of boats following the advice to shut everything down and lie-a-hull. And there seems to be other verified accounts of this helping - hence it is now offered as the main advice. Nevertheless it doesn't seem to be a complete solution - but perhaps has helped to minimise damage.

There have been several reports of a Portuguese sailor, Marc Heminio, which describe an incident in August of this year. He found that taking his sail down and motoring backwards he was able to avoid damage from a pod of 10 orcas. Some Googling of his name came up with this online picture and some short text which, with the help of Google Translate - describe the encounter very briefly, as above. ″Já acompanhei muitas baleias e golfinhos mas nunca vi isto″

And as previously mentioned, there is a more recent account of a 33 foot yacht attacked by two orcas for two and a half-hours. The boat was motored astern at around 3 knots and towed an inflatable dinghy at the bow. The dinghy was wrecked but there was no damage to the rudder.

If anyone else is aware of verifiable solutions or part-solutions it would be good to hear of them. It is completely possible for good solutions to emerge over time without any understanding of causes.

Oh yes, really good idea to give them something dressed up as a human and encourage them to play with it. Trying to teach them about new human shaped things to throw around is just what we need. A well thought out plan.

oh yes , really ,, get them hooked on the taste of rubber ,,,,,, well thot out reply ? i dont think

 

[Mistroma]

oh yes , really ,, get them hooked on the taste of rubber ,,,,,, well thot out reply ? i dont think

Glad you agree. I was replying to your comment in #98 below (obviously also completely serious suggestion).

Well , some may have seen / read / heard of an instance where a towed inflatesble dingy was of considerable distraction during one interaction ( their term , not mine ) i am surprised that there has not been more mention of such a tactic , successful or otherwise , Also , the possability of doning a blow up doll ( i am sure many of you know the type of thing ?) with some typical northern european yachty garb and tossing that in , be interesting as to whither they might “ attack “ / interact ( omg ) at all , that may allay or confirm the concern / fears ( / paranoia ) of the likes of Kukri or Artic man ?

 

[shan]

It crossed my mind that a good friend of mine might have known someone who could tell you what we taste like. He was a missionary in Melanesia in the 60s and 70s, so I guess the grandparent generation when he was there might have indulged in their youth. Papua New Guinea was on his patch, and some of the interior tribes were still cannibals in living memory, but I don't think he had much to do with PNG, he was based in the Solomon Islands. He has written histories of the Solomon's.

Humans are referred to as 'long pigs'....

 

[Seven Spades]

I can see no long term solution to this problem short of a cull. From what I have read few boat see the Orcas before the initial encounter, by which time the damage is done. Some are lucky and reversing seems to be effective if you have notice or the first strike has caused no damage.

Personally I think it is only a matter of time before a sinking occurs and then we will have to see what Orcas make of liferafts.

 

[cherod]

I can see no long term solution to this problem short of a cull. From what I have read few boat see the Orcas before the initial encounter, by which time the damage is done. Some are lucky and reversing seems to be effective if you have notice or the first strike has caused no damage.

Personally I think it is only a matter of time before a sinking occurs and then we will have to see what Orcas make of liferafts.

Fortunatly your type of response is confined to a very few people and , from what i read , a small percentage if those involved , ( which seem to include a couple if persistent bleaters on here ) , and will get little sympathy from most quarters , individuals or organisations perhaps you should be reported to the WWF as a threat to the environment !

 

[Kelpie]

Better coordination of the location, time, and details of each attack, by a central authority with suitable funding. We shouldn't be finding out about these incidents from internet forums and conservation websites.
Secondly, GPS tagging of the rogue individual animals, so that we can choose to avoid them to some degree.

I'd strongly support both of these measures before resorting to a cull. But it needs a government or other deep-pocketed organisation to take the lead.