Orcas, Portugal and Unexpected Inspections

I certainly agree that goe tagging of as many of these pods should happen as soon as possible. We may even learn something from it. The tagging needs to be live so that we can make a break for it when they are not around.

The problem is that they are so fast and can cover a huge area in such a short time period.
 
I would be interested to hear how anybody ( everybody :unsure: ) is expected yo tag the offending orca , everyone carry a dart gun carrying a gps transmitter ?? ( other suggestions could be considered ):rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Mistroma said:
Oh yes, really good idea to give them something dressed up as a human and encourage them to play with it. Trying to teach them about new human shaped things to throw around is just what we need. A well thought out plan.:D:D
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So is it beyond your wit to have a line on it to retreive it if it is attacked ( i did not allow for those who cannot think or react to a developing situation ?)
 
Seven Spades said:
I can see no long term solution to this problem short of a cull. From what I have read few boat see the Orcas before the initial encounter, by which time the damage is done. Some are lucky and reversing seems to be effective if you have notice or the first strike has caused no damage.

Personally I think it is only a matter of time before a sinking occurs and then we will have to see what Orcas make of liferafts.
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I think you are correct.

My credentials as a marine biologist are slim enough, however I will disclose what is happening

These creatures were at the apex for millennia then over a period of 500 years they were increasingly hunted and learned to be very wary of boats of any kind or size. The more fearless ones quickly became corsets.

Now they were suddenly learning they are not hunted and are starting to have no fear at all of boats, or of man. They are not hampered by self reflexive thought and will act with what appears to us to be capricious and bullying behaviour because that is what top predators do, it's a methodology for staying at the top of the triangle.


So, not for the first time, our ham fisted attempts at conservation have effects that have not been anticipated. Don't expect this to be admitted very soon or for our experts to offer any apologies, commiseration or solutions. At least the PC terminology has been issued, if you are attacked console yourself with the thought that it is only an interaction.


.
 
Poey50 said:
I've read quite a few accounts now on several forums and seen many videos and also read thousands of words speculating on motives, origins of the behaviour, scores of potential solutions from benign to retaliatory, and heated pro and anti diatribes.

Instead of all that I think a solutions-focussed approach might be better. Rather than trying to arrive at a complex understanding of the problem (which tends, so far, to be low on fact and high on opinion) you simply try to gather up exceptions to the problem - times when the problem wasn't as bad as expected or indeed seemed to be solved.

I've seen some video of boats following the advice to shut everything down and lie-a-hull. And there seems to be other verified accounts of this helping - hence it is now offered as the main advice. Nevertheless it doesn't seem to be a complete solution - but perhaps has helped to minimise damage.

There have been several reports of a Portuguese sailor, Marc Herminio, which describe an incident in August of this year. He found that taking his sail down and motoring backwards he was able to avoid damage from a pod of 10 orcas. Some Googling of his name came up with this online picture and some short text which, with the help of Google Translate - describe the encounter very briefly, as above. ″Já acompanhei muitas baleias e golfinhos mas nunca vi isto″

And as previously mentioned, there is a more recent account of a 33 foot yacht attacked by two orcas for two and a half-hours. The boat was motored astern at around 3 knots and towed an inflatable dinghy at the bow. The dinghy was wrecked but there was no damage to the rudder.

If anyone else is aware of verifiable solutions or part-solutions it would be good to hear of them. It is completely possible for good solutions to emerge over time without any understanding of causes.
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Yes, very sensible and we may never get a complete understanding of the reason for Orca behaviour in these circumstances. Leaving my poor attempts at humour to one side. I suspect my own plan at present would be:

1) Collect information and look for reports of recent, distant interactions
2) Travel during the day, short distances and close to shore when possible
3) Be prepared in light of latest evidence from attacks (dinghy ready to launch etc.)
4) Try reverse as soon as possible if approached and then report on VHF (or at same time if sufficient crew)
5) Consider other options (dinghy etc.)

Of course there are many things to go wrong and large chance of panic. There will be an understandable urge to try several things at once. A better approach is to try your best option first and slowly work through your remaining options if you boat continues to be hit.

Easily said and I bet most people will react in haste (myself included). I'd be hesitant to launch a dinghy when reversing in case it simply acted as a lure. It may be impossible to recover and could encourage people to take risks. Seeing a dinghy being thrown around would be quite worrying as a liferaft would be your option when sinking.

I'm even less keen to launch a mannequin for pretty obvious reasons.

I'm lucky to have sailed into the med. years ago and Webbie has my sympathy just now.
 
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Mistroma said:
Yes, very sensible and we may never get a complete understanding of the reason for Orca behaviour in these circumstances...
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In the modern world we tend to assume that understanding the problem then leads to a solution but most developments are the other way round. Agriculture, brewing, baking, smelting etc were all discovered and improved without any understanding of the processes involved - that came after the discovery -,they were entirely results-led. People try things and if they work tend to do more of them. The important stage is to gather up verifiable information on what seems to help and what doesn't.
 
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As an example, this rather poorly edited video shows complete success using what might be called the 'playing dead' solution. (Perhaps not completely playing dead as the crew were visible on deck.) If you check the comments you will see some people complaining that the video shows nothing - there is no damage and they seem to feel cheated. On a long Cruisers Forum thread, the 'slow reverse' solution of the Portuguese sailor from the summer was introduced into the conversation and got ignored. The person tried again later - also ignored. People don't tend to be that interested in what works - at least on social media - it is damage, speculation, outrage (either poor orcas or poor yachtsmen) that get the clicks and attention. All pretty pointless.

 
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Mistroma said:
Yes, very sensible and we may never get a complete understanding of the reason for Orca behaviour in these circumstances. Leaving my poor attempts at humour to one side. I suspect my own plan at present would be:

1) Collect information and look for reports of recent, distant interactions
2) Travel during the day, short distances and close to shore when possible
3) Be prepared in light of latest evidence from attacks (dinghy ready to launch etc.)
4) Try reverse as soon as possible if approached and then report on VHF (or at same time if sufficient crew)
5) Consider other options (dinghy etc.)

Of course there are many things to go wrong and large chance of panic. There will be an understandable urge to try several things at once. A better approach is to try your best option first and slowly work through your remaining options if you boat continues to be hit.

Easily said and I bet most people will react in haste (myself included). I'd be hesitant to launch a dinghy when reversing in case it simply acted as a lure. It may be impossible to recover and could encourage people to take risks. Seeing a dinghy being thrown around would be quite worrying as a liferaft would be your option when sinking.

I'm even less keen to launch a mannequin for pretty obvious reasons.

I'm lucky to have sailed into the med. years ago and Webbie has my sympathy just now.
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i think everybody who is facing this danger has all of our sympathies ,
you seem to have made a fairly good effort there in describing some of the fairly obvious defencive methods ( despite both recomending preparing a dingy on one hand but not using it on the other ) .. but can you elaborate on the " obvious " ( perhaps to some people ) reasons for not launching a manequin ,,, i would have thot it would be quite a good gauge of wither or not the orcas would then attack survivors of any sinking , which ultimatly is surely the main issue here .
 
cherod said:
i think everybody who is facing this danger has all of our sympathies ,
you seem to have made a fairly good effort there in describing some of the fairly obvious defencive methods ( despite both recomending preparing a dingy on one hand but not using it on the other ) .. but can you elaborate on the " obvious " ( perhaps to some people ) reasons for not launching a manequin ,,, i would have thot it would be quite a good gauge of wither or not the orcas would then attack survivors of any sinking , which ultimatly is surely the main issue here .
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I had already picked up on your sympathetic nature. It is a normal human response and I know Webbie is in the area.

My point was to prepare in advance. I wouldn't launch a dinghy as my first choice but wouldn't rule it out when other strategies had failed. It was meant to be a rough summary of all the pretty obvious stuff, though I didn't go straight to stop and hide. I'd prefer to try reversing if possible initially. It certainly wasn't an exhaustive list.

I simply did not see much advantage in taking the time to dress up something to resemble a human. If they attack it you will be worried and if they ignore it you may think it just doesn't look like lunch to their senses. Diverting them with a random floating toy seems to be something reasonable to try. Diverting them with a faux human seems less logical. However, you are perfectly free to disagree and explain the particular advantages of this strategy.
 
Mistroma said:
I had already picked up on your sympathetic nature. It is a normal human response and I know Webbie is in the area.

My point was to prepare in advance. I wouldn't launch a dinghy as my first choice but wouldn't rule it out when other strategies had failed. It was meant to be a rough summary of all the pretty obvious stuff, though I didn't go straight to stop and hide. I'd prefer to try reversing if possible initially. It certainly wasn't an exhaustive list.

I simply did not see much advantage in taking the time to dress up something to resemble a human. If they attack it you will be worried and if they ignore it you may think it just doesn't look like lunch to their senses. Diverting them with a random floating toy seems to be something reasonable to try. Diverting them with a faux human seems less logical. However, you are perfectly free to disagree and explain the particular advantages of this strategy.
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Ok , so it was just a rough summary of the obvious , now i can understand better , i thot you were maybe trying to make some personal advice , Re the maniquin , tho rubber blow up doll is what i suggested , somewhat different i think , “ the particular adv of this strategy “ is that it clearly resembles a human , i thot that might be obvious , and may help allay or , heaven forbid , confirm some peoples concern as to whither there is an added danger there or not , not as some sort of “ random toy “ as a deterent .
 
Spirit (of Glenans) said:
Perhaps the best remedy lies in the French canals......
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This may well be the case , ( if the vessel is suitable , many are not ) or much further off shore or along some charted route which can be somehow protected , i think the idea of boldly going slaughtering the indigous wild life so one can fullfil ones “ dream adventure “ is not going to get much sympathy , except from the obvious few .
 
cherod said:
Ok , so it was just a rough summary of the obvious , now i can understand better , i thot you were maybe trying to make some personal advice , Re the maniquin , tho rubber blow up doll is what i suggested , somewhat different i think , “ the particular adv of this strategy “ is that it clearly resembles a human , i thot that might be obvious , and may help allay or , heaven forbid , confirm some peoples concern as to whither there is an added danger there or not , not as some sort of “ random toy “ as a deterent .
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A dummy in the water for them to toss around may train them to do the same with any human who ends up in the water.
 
Kukri said:
We are not going to solve the mystery of whale communication in time to do anything about a pod of killer whales that have taken up smashing sailing yacht rudders as what seems to be a hobby.
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Too true
We often get a bad press as non essential amateur boaty enthusiasts wanting finance from the general purse. So it's difficult to see where the money will come from unless Orcas start taking people from beaches or interfere with local pleasure boats. It would be nice to see a chart marked where incidents have taken place which might help to lessen the odds. Otherwise I think we are on our own mate!. Collision bulkheads close to the rudder area might help.
 
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