Orcas, Portugal and Unexpected Inspections

Rappey said:
I watch more youtube than tv. It's built into the tv and it's easy to use so I browse a lot of content. I've no idea what the video wasand it was a clip within a video.
The boat was a catamaran and it was heading for a haul out in Portugal or Spain.
They panned around the boatyard and were shocked to see how many boats have rudder damage.
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think i saw that one ,, the " crazy " american wifey with the purple hair ,, think it is a Broadblue catamaran .
me neither , watch very little TV
 
Poey50 said:
While it is too early to know if 'slow reverse' will prove to be a reliable and lasting solution it is quite possible to now move backwards from solution to speculate why it might work. Superman is laid low by kryptonite, daleks can't go up stairs, and orcas seem not to be able to swim backwards. A yacht motoring in reverse has formidable defence from a pursuing orca since the propellor is now ahead of the rudder and the rudder presents a much less convenient edge to bite. A deep spade rudder may be more vulnerable but even here it has some protection from the keel which must be negotiated first. Of course, even if successful it might prove a temporary solution as orcas learn new methods of attack but, for the moment, I think it has promise.
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perhaps enough of them will have a "bloody nose " to discourage the activity
 
AntarcticPilot said:
I've just looked at Last interactions | Orca iberica. There's no way that's a single pod of Killers; the geographic area is way too large for the timescales involved. Has any Killer Whale expert looked at the video and photographic records? Killers can be identified reliably from their markings; unfortunately, it's a job for someone who has done it before! Although Killers can swim fast, they also have to spend time hunting, and if they're in an area with prey, they generally stick to it. And if I'm right (and I am no expert on Killer Whales; only what has rubbed off from working alongside people who are!), then it must be some change in the ecology of the region that has triggered this switch in behaviour.

One thing that might help is that all the interactions appear to have taken place on the continental shelf; that fits with what I've read about their habits; they aren't deep divers. So a viable solution might be to sail further offshore, off the continental shelf.
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i think i remember the Iberica people asking for as many photos of offending orcas to help identify culprits ( i think that is the accepted way of identification )
 
AntarcticPilot said:
One thing that might help is that all the interactions appear to have taken place on the continental shelf; that fits with what I've read about their habits; they aren't deep divers. So a viable solution might be to sail further offshore, off the continental shelf.
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So stop all coastal sailing?

Bit severe... Good advice maybe if on a non-stop passage to, eg, the Canaries, but a bit hard on the thousands of yachtsmen based on this coast.

- W
 
steve yates said:
Not me. Ive no prob with them being called a-holes, i'd call teenage neds the same, even if their species name is human :)
I'd be bloody cross, partly fascinated, and nervous if I was on a lee shore or had a dead battery.
But I wouldnt shoot the bloody thing , its in its own environment, a place we are privileged to be sometimes but do not actually belong.
Shit happens, you may as well talk about controlling the weather because you dont like gales damaging your sails.
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I don't recall suggesting shooting them.
 
There is now a Facebook group on orca attacks. I've copied this unedited from one post as it seems to support the idea of the propellor as a protective factor when going astern together with some experiments with a false propellor that can be used with the vessel moving forwards. Whether a relatively intelligent animal such as the orca is fooled for long by a false propellor that creates none of the usual pressure remains to be seen.

"Miguel Lacerda is one of the Portuguese experts in the great mamals and also one of the great sailors we can meet. He propose a different solution which need to be tried and tested, and the reasons are explained in the article

English translation ORCA ATTACKS ON YACHT RUDDERS THE SOLUTION? Since 2019 I have been following this new behavior of orcas (previously never described) the focus or obsession of some of these animals on the destruction of yacht rudders. For anyone who works, has worked with or studies these animals, they have no trouble realizing that this new orca behavior is the result of a negligent, abusive or even careless incident by humans. I will not elaborate much on the behavior of these animals, because for those of us who navigate with some frequency by this sea where incidents have occurred (from Galicia to Gibraltar) what we want is safety and to be able to continue to enjoy and cohabit with nature. I have heard a lot about what should or should not be done, some take the side of doing nothing, the orcas are in their environment, we are the intruders (guaranteed that this behavior will proliferate to other animals) ... but there are those who want to kill them (by any means) which may result in other behaviors with consequences much more threatening and harmful to man. I don't agree with both solutions, it was us "men" who changed the behavior of these animals, if we want to continue to enjoy their environment, we have to be the men to find ways, without being invasive and aggressive so that we can continue to sail and enjoy the sea safely. When it comes to interacting with wild animals in their environment and we don't want to be extremely invasive, it is always difficult to find a solution that works to its fullest, however and sometimes simple things can have surprising effects. What I learned from whalers in the 70's/80's eventually led me to know a bit about these animals and their surprising behaviors. WHICH LEADS ME TO CREATE A SOLUTION BASED ON A "FALSE" PROPELLER AT THE STERN OF THE BOAT - Cetaceans rarely swim near a working propeller. - The vast majority of the boats attacked whose rudders were destroyed were sailing yachts, the rudder port is far away from the propeller. - The rare cases of boats (trawlers and yachts) whose propeller is installed next to the helm port, did not have a working propeller. - When we put the boat in reverse, so that the orcas can attack the helm port they are exposed to the propeller. The solution I present (without much technical rigor) is just another alternative to all those that have been tested so far (not always successfully). It is not difficult, and is even cheap, to create a sling (to have on board) from a house fan or propeller... a device that resembles the propulsion means of a boat, which can (this is the doubt) create for the orcas an eventual uncomfortable and dangerous zone for swimming and attacking the helm. The fake propeller works by moving the boat, in which case there is no need to stop the boat, or take the sails off... From what we tested today, it seems to me that we are on the way to finding what I idealized. We have to improve a little, test with more weight and create a kind of "wing" that allows a better hydrodynamic performance. There are certainly other solutions, this one may not work with the orcas (and may even be ridiculous), but until I test it with the animals, I will develop it and it will be part of my onboard equipment when I sail along the coast of the Iberian Peninsula. I challenge the friends who have more capacity and knowledge to develop and create solutions, we can't continue with our arms folded waiting for the orcas to change their behavior... I love the sea and its inhabitants too much to lightly and abusively impose my presence in an environment that is not mine...."
 
Poey50 said:
There is now a Facebook group on orca attacks. I've copied this unedited from one post as it seems to support the idea of the propellor as a protective factor when going astern together with some experiments with a false propellor that can be used with the vessel moving forwards. Whether a relatively intelligent animal such as the orca is fooled for long by a false propellor that creates none of the usual pressure remains to be seen.

"Miguel Lacerda is one of the Portuguese experts in the great mamals and also one of the great sailors we can meet. He propose a different solution which need to be tried and tested, and the reasons are explained in the article

English translation ORCA ATTACKS ON YACHT RUDDERS THE SOLUTION? Since 2019 I have been following this new behavior of orcas (previously never described) the focus or obsession of some of these animals on the destruction of yacht rudders. For anyone who works, has worked with or studies these animals, they have no trouble realizing that this new orca behavior is the result of a negligent, abusive or even careless incident by humans. I will not elaborate much on the behavior of these animals, because for those of us who navigate with some frequency by this sea where incidents have occurred (from Galicia to Gibraltar) what we want is safety and to be able to continue to enjoy and cohabit with nature. I have heard a lot about what should or should not be done, some take the side of doing nothing, the orcas are in their environment, we are the intruders (guaranteed that this behavior will proliferate to other animals) ... but there are those who want to kill them (by any means) which may result in other behaviors with consequences much more threatening and harmful to man. I don't agree with both solutions, it was us "men" who changed the behavior of these animals, if we want to continue to enjoy their environment, we have to be the men to find ways, without being invasive and aggressive so that we can continue to sail and enjoy the sea safely. When it comes to interacting with wild animals in their environment and we don't want to be extremely invasive, it is always difficult to find a solution that works to its fullest, however and sometimes simple things can have surprising effects. What I learned from whalers in the 70's/80's eventually led me to know a bit about these animals and their surprising behaviors. WHICH LEADS ME TO CREATE A SOLUTION BASED ON A "FALSE" PROPELLER AT THE STERN OF THE BOAT - Cetaceans rarely swim near a working propeller. - The vast majority of the boats attacked whose rudders were destroyed were sailing yachts, the rudder port is far away from the propeller. - The rare cases of boats (trawlers and yachts) whose propeller is installed next to the helm port, did not have a working propeller. - When we put the boat in reverse, so that the orcas can attack the helm port they are exposed to the propeller. The solution I present (without much technical rigor) is just another alternative to all those that have been tested so far (not always successfully). It is not difficult, and is even cheap, to create a sling (to have on board) from a house fan or propeller... a device that resembles the propulsion means of a boat, which can (this is the doubt) create for the orcas an eventual uncomfortable and dangerous zone for swimming and attacking the helm. The fake propeller works by moving the boat, in which case there is no need to stop the boat, or take the sails off... From what we tested today, it seems to me that we are on the way to finding what I idealized. We have to improve a little, test with more weight and create a kind of "wing" that allows a better hydrodynamic performance. There are certainly other solutions, this one may not work with the orcas (and may even be ridiculous), but until I test it with the animals, I will develop it and it will be part of my onboard equipment when I sail along the coast of the Iberian Peninsula. I challenge the friends who have more capacity and knowledge to develop and create solutions, we can't continue with our arms folded waiting for the orcas to change their behavior... I love the sea and its inhabitants too much to lightly and abusively impose my presence in an environment that is not mine...."
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Like post #62 then ?
They are clearly intelligent enough to know that propellers bite whereas messing around with dinghies and dummies will only encourage further interaction and bring the problem even closer to shore...

And it wouldn't feel like a false propellor when you start the real propeller in front of the rudder. It would also give them a very real nip if they came close to remind them!
 
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From the evidence, such as it is, so far, If I were going now to orca territories (I'm not) I would prepare some means of centralising the rudder which nevertheless yields temporarily to a blow from the side. For our tiller steering this might be some thick shock-cord secured around the tiller but with sufficient length (perhaps through blocks) such that the rudder could be pushed fully to the side but still centre itself when the pressure is removed. I would experiment with using this to keep the boat moving steadily in reverse requiring no manual steering noting the best revs and speed. I would want it to be deployable within the shortest possible time. I'd reverse downwind so the sails can then be taken in quickly. I would have an inflated tender on the foredeck but would would reserve judgement as to when to deploy. I wouldn't want to give orcas a reason to stay around but would deploy if they continue to experiment with ways of attacking the rudder. I would switch off all other non-essential systems and also keep myself as hidden and quiet as possible. I'd do several practice drills of moving from full sail to 'orca-ready' in order both to bring down the time for deployment and to be able to carry out the deployment while feeling stressed.
 
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Poey50 said:
The vast majority of the boats attacked whose rudders were destroyed were sailing yachts, the rudder port is far away from the propeller. - The rare cases of boats (trawlers and yachts) whose propeller is installed next to the helm port, did not have a working propeller.
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Based on a sample size of one, the Nauticat owner I spoke to yesterday falls outside of this description. He has a prop in an aperture immediately forward of the rudder, and was motoring when the attack happened.
 
Kelpie said:
Based on a sample size of one, the Nauticat owner I spoke to yesterday falls outside of this description. He has a prop in an aperture immediately forward of the rudder, and was motoring when the attack happened.
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Certainly no firm conclusions can be drawn so far but I didn't quite understand the Nauticat set-up. Was the owner motoring forwards or in reverse?
 
Poey50 said:
Certainly no firm conclusions can be drawn so far but I didn't quite understand the Nauticat set-up. Was the owner motoring forwards or in reverse?
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He was motoring forwards at the time of the attack, and by the time he realised what was happening it was all over.
Interestingly, his Hydrovane appears to have survived, although it's not impossible that he had the rudder stowed at the time. Would seem unlikely though.
 
Kelpie said:
Based on a sample size of one, the Nauticat owner I spoke to yesterday falls outside of this description. He has a prop in an aperture immediately forward of the rudder, and was motoring when the attack happened.
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Yeah, I became a lot more worried personally when I saw the Nauticat damage. We have a keel hung rudder with the prop in an aperture, and I had hoped we might be immune!

- W
 
Just saw on the Facebook site a Welt tv report on a German boat that had the skeg torn off and rudder mangled.

The owner showed the imprints of the Orcas on the hull and keel where they had been ramming him.
 
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