Orcas, Portugal and Unexpected Inspections

[penfold]

Cetaceous Jihad.

 

[Ammonite]

I wonder...would a free wheeling propeller on the end of a pole just behind the rudder provide a solution? Something knocked up from sheet metal rather than anything fancy. I'm loathed to say it could be sharpened but as a last resort? Not ideal from a sailing point of view but better than losing your rudder and easily removed. I'm assuming the attacks take place in relatively benign conditions rather than gales

 

[cimota]

As for ramming and sinking boats, that does seem unlikely. It's one thing to chew an easily accessible bit that's hanging off the back, quite another to batter something hard enough to make a hole. You'd have to hid you boat quite hard with a hammer to crack the hull. An orca's head is a lot bigger than a hammer, and relatively soft in comparison, so it would take a hell of a bang to damage the hull. Yes, a boat could be sunk if the rudder post seals were damaged, but I don't see it happening through ramming.

4-6 ton animal repeatedly bashing fibreglass, I dunno man.

I mean, during the experience I had to keep checking. The boat itself is a hollow framework compared to these beasts. And there's always other damage.

 

[Ammonite]

4-6 ton animal repeatedly bashing fibreglass, I dunno man.

I mean, during the experience I had to keep checking. The boat itself is a hollow framework compared to these beasts. And there's always other damage.

I'm with you on this!

 

[penfold]

I wonder...would a free wheeling propeller on the end of a pole just behind the rudder provide a solution? Something knocked up from sheet metal rather than anything fancy. I'm loathed to say it could be sharpened but as a last resort? Not ideal from a sailing point of view but better than losing your rudder and easily removed. I'm assuming the attacks take place in relatively benign conditions rather than gales

Sounds like a Grim Wheel; they were fitted to the QE2 when new, but the blades all fell off.

 

[Stemar]

I see that many of those fishermen did try a variety of electronic noise making devices to ward off the Orca. It seems that they simply got used to them and eventually attracted them to the fishing boat.

That's why the "depth charge" idea proposed above seems to me to be more likely to be effective. You only use it when they get too close, and it's uncomfortably loud, but not harmful.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Perhaps, you could abandon the faux outrage for a minute? Of course the Orcas have the right to be wherever the hell they want but at the same time, sailers have the right to feel peeved about having their rudder chewed off and their boat smacked about. I know I would be peeved. It's perfectly natural to have a rant about things that annoy us - it doesn't mean we are all going to strap on our AK47s and go blast the shit out of everything.

Tell me something, if your grandchildren/children/ young nieces or nephews were on a boat that got smacked about and chewed, would you be honoured for them to snuff it too?

The point is - a practical solution does need to be found, which works for both Orcas and Boaters because if a solution is not found, people will take matters into their own hands and "just blast the hell out of them".

The thing is, it isn't normal behaviour for orcas. One could speculate for hours on how and why it started, but the fact remains that it's a small number of rogue animals who've decided it's fun to chew boats, and the rudder's the easiest bit to chew. If that behaviour goes unchecked, there's a risk of it spreading. Orcas are protected, but the removal of a few troublesome individuals from that area isn't going to damage the survival prospects of the species, but might enhance those of passing yotties. Of course that's easy to say, but a lot harder to do.

One question, The chewed rudders I've seen have all been spades. Are rudders on long keels or skegs also being attacked?

Yes I know the orcas are probably playing, rather than attacking, but those on the receiving end can't tell the difference.

A very sensible response.
My pills have started to kick in.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

The thing is, it isn't normal behaviour for orcas. One could speculate for hours on how and why it started, but the fact remains that it's a small number of rogue animals who've decided it's fun to chew boats, and the rudder's the easiest bit to chew. If that behaviour goes unchecked, there's a risk of it spreading. Orcas are protected, but the removal of a few troublesome individuals from that area isn't going to damage the survival prospects of the species, but might enhance those of passing yotties. Of course that's easy to say, but a lot harder to do.

One question, The chewed rudders I've seen have all been spades. Are rudders on long keels or skegs also being attacked?

Yes I know the orcas are probably playing, rather than attacking, but those on the receiving end can't tell the difference.

I saw a film about Orcas kept in activity. It was either Youtube or Netflix.
These were performing animals that interreact with staff in the pool that provide shows to the public.

I believe they have more or less stopped now because of the unpredictable behaviour. It was amazing footage where Orcas were dragging a staff members underwater multiple times without releasing them. One staff member died. This despite having excellent relationships over long periods. No one could come up with any real reasons why this was happening.

 

[Kukri]

Let’s just remember that these are the world’s largest generalist predators. A sperm whale - even larger but fortunately a specialist - can and did sink a fair sized wooden ship. I don’t think an orca would have much trouble in sinking a yacht and picking out the tasty bits.

 

[Stemar]

I saw a film about Orcas kept in activity. It was either Youtube or Netflix.
These were performing animals that interreact with staff in the pool that provide shows to the public.

I believe they have more or less stopped now because of the unpredictable behaviour. It was amazing footage where Orcas were dragging a staff members underwater multiple times without releasing them. One staff member died. This despite having excellent relationships over long periods. No one could come up with any real reasons why this was happening.

My sympathy's with the orcas in that case. The poor things are driven stir crazy. IIRC, there's never been a case of an orca attacking a person in the wild.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

My sympathy's with the orcas in that case. The poor things are driven stir crazy. IIRC, there's never been a case of an orca attacking a person in the wild.

I naively thought the Orcas were kept in the large performing pools.

It was mentioned that they are usually kept in rather small pens for about
19 hours each day.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

My sympathy's with the orcas in that case. The poor things are driven stir crazy. IIRC, there's never been a case of an orca attacking a person in the wild.

You are correct that there have been no documented fatalities from attacks by wild Killer Whales. There has been at least one that depends on believable anecdotal evidence, and several cases where the person appears to have escaped more by chance than anything else.

There was a case on Scott's Last Expedition where Ponting (the photographer) had a narrow escape (Chapter III: Land « Scott's Last Expedition - well down the page). That is arguable, though; they may have been targetting sledge dogs, and Ponting got mixed up in it. However, it is clear that the Killers were targetting whatever was on the ice-floe that they attempted to overturn.; if they had succeeded, I don't suppose they would have spat Ponting out!

It also appears that the Robertsons and Bailey's yachts were targetted by Killer Whales, resulting in their sinking.

A Killer Whale that belongs to a seal-eating population might well perceive a human as merely another target. They are obligate carnivores, with a wide range of hunting strategies.

It's also worth noting that the absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

This is interesting and documents several incidents: Killer whale attack - Wikipedia

 

[cherod]

wheras there are umpteen documented / filmed occasions where Orcas have been interacting with humans in the wild with no indication that they were threatening .

 

[AntarcticPilot]

wheras there are umpteen documented / filmed occasions where Orcas have been interacting with humans in the wild with no indication that they were threatening .

Well, they are reputed to be pretty intelligent. Maybe no one has CAUGHT a Killer Whale attacking a human! I know of at least one fatal interaction with a much smaller (though still pretty big) carnivore (leopard seal). And the Wikipedia page documents at least one occasion (the BBC film crew) where their behaviour was an attack pattern.

I know that I personally would never voluntarily put myself in a position where a Killer whale had a chance of attacking me. Their history in captivity strongly suggests that whatever else they may be, they are VERY unpredictable. The one time I've been in the same waters as a Killer Whale, in the Inner Sound between Skye and the mainland in a smallish boat, although I was thrilled to see it, I was also very apprehensive and very glad that the whale took no interest in me.

 

[Graham376]

wheras there are umpteen documented / filmed occasions where Orcas have been interacting with humans in the wild with no indication that they were threatening .

Same applies to some lions, tigers, hyenas, gorillas and many other species, does that mean the rest won't have you for supper?

Look at it another way, we'd be doing the tuna a favour by culling a few orcas.

 

[Kukri]

I think it’s very simple; until lately, there haven’t been many times when humans and hungry orcas have been in the same place at the same time. Once the whales learn that people taste much the same as seals, this will change.

 

[cherod]

I think it’s very simple; until lately, there haven’t been many times when humans and hungry orcas have been in the same place at the same time. Once the whales learn that people taste much the same as seals, this will change.

same as seals ,,,, do you speak from experience ??

 

[AntarcticPilot]

same as seals ,,,, do you speak from experience ??

Whether we taste like seals or not, the issue is that we are much the same size as seals. Most carnivores select their prey on the basis of size and availability.

 

[cherod]

Whether we taste like seals or not, the issue is that we are much the same size as seals. Most carnivores select their prey on the basis of size and availability.

i am aware of that ,,it was the tasting bit to which i was referring , as was the point of the post quoted.

 

[Kukri]

i am aware of that ,,it was the tasting bit to which i was referring , as was the point of the post quoted.

I thought the point was simple; not a lot of humans have been in the same bit of sea as a pod of orcas, and orcas eat other mammals that are about our size. QED.