25931
Well-known member
Do you have a copy ?
Orca attack
- Thread starter Sailfree
- Start date
WindyWindyWindy
Active member
No, sorry. There's a good chunk of it on google books.
Appears to be available on Amazon: Harpooner: A Four-Year Voyage On The Barque Kathleen, 1880-1884: Ferguson, Robert, Stair, Leslie Dalrymple, Quinn, Paul: 9781258135584: Amazon.com: Books
newtothis
Well-known member
Enough of the orcas... here are some real killer whales.
New Zealand: Whale may have caused boat flip that killed five
New Zealand: Whale may have caused boat flip that killed five
Stingo
Well-known member
It's not just rudders that Orcas don't like
Tradewinds
Well-known member
25931
Well-known member
Very many thanks.
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
This happened not too long ago .
Seen it when on a lot longer then others have been reported .
Seen it when on a lot longer then others have been reported .
fisherman
Well-known member
Conversation yesterday, "Wonder what would happen if they got someone into the water. They learned all sorts of tricks in pursuit of food."
Anecdotally, going hard astern discourages them.
Anecdotally, going hard astern discourages them.
RupertW
Well-known member
More than anecdotally the Spanish fishermen around Gibralter took much firmer action 5 or 6 years ago before they started going after yachts - and good for them.
Yorkshire Paul
Member
CRUISING ASSOCIATION CHANGES ITS SAFETY PROTOCOL TO INCLUDE REVERSING
In June 2022, before the launch of the CA orca interaction project, we asked the scientists at GTOA to lobby the Spanish Government to accept that reversing slowly and steadily in the presence of orcas would not (as they had advised us) cause harm to orcas and should not be deemed illegal.
On launching the project in July 2022 the CA added a paragraph to its safety protocol, noting that evidence was emerging to indicate that slowly reversing could halt or prevent an interaction. We further stated that whilst GTOA advised us that orcas would not be harmed, the Spanish authorities had pronounced that reversing in the presence of orcas is illegal.
At that stage the evidence was limited and GTOA were not convinced that reversing would prove effective in the longer term. However further evidence from interaction reports received by the CA and on social media has shown that in a majority of reported cases reversing has proved effective.
Following further consultations between GTOA and the Portuguese Institute for Conservation of Nature and Forests (ICNF) and subsequent discussions between ICNF and the Associação Naval de Lisboa (Lisbon Naval Association - ANL) the ICNF issued advice that reversing in the presence of orcas is acceptable and has presented advice that reversing in certain conditions may be effective. See web page here
Accordingly, the Cruising Association has now amended its protocol to include reversing (when sea conditions permit). See [www.theca.org.uk/orcas](http://www.theca.org.uk/orcas)
However, the CA cautions that
1.reversing in certain sea conditions can be dangerous;
2. the Spanish authorities have stated that reversing in the presence of orcas is illegal “except in an emergency”.
The CA will further consult with the Spanish authorities with the support and assistance of GTOA to seek clarification.
The scientists at GTOA are concerned that orcas may find a way to damage the rudder of a reversing yacht. It is important, therefore that any yacht reversing during an orca interaction submits a report giving as much detail as possible of the interaction, including at what stage reversing commenced (before the rudder is touched or after), whether they reversed in a straight line or in circles, and how the orcas reacted throughout.
Some reports indicate that reversing has not proven effective. If the CA receives detailed reports then we can try and assess best practice for the reversing measure in the event that the orcas do find a way to circumvent the manoeuvre (for example is straight line reversing more effective than reversing in a circle or the other way around?)
All reports received by the CA are publicly viewable (but anonymised). See [www.theca.org.uk/orcas/reports](http://www.theca.org.uk/orcas/reports) Filter by date to see the latest reports or reports for a particular month displayed on a map and click on the pin to see the full report. Comparative data can also be viewed at this location.
The CA welcomes the new collaboration between ANL and ICNF to find solutions to this problem and will be writing to ANL to offer support where required.
In June 2022, before the launch of the CA orca interaction project, we asked the scientists at GTOA to lobby the Spanish Government to accept that reversing slowly and steadily in the presence of orcas would not (as they had advised us) cause harm to orcas and should not be deemed illegal.
On launching the project in July 2022 the CA added a paragraph to its safety protocol, noting that evidence was emerging to indicate that slowly reversing could halt or prevent an interaction. We further stated that whilst GTOA advised us that orcas would not be harmed, the Spanish authorities had pronounced that reversing in the presence of orcas is illegal.
At that stage the evidence was limited and GTOA were not convinced that reversing would prove effective in the longer term. However further evidence from interaction reports received by the CA and on social media has shown that in a majority of reported cases reversing has proved effective.
Following further consultations between GTOA and the Portuguese Institute for Conservation of Nature and Forests (ICNF) and subsequent discussions between ICNF and the Associação Naval de Lisboa (Lisbon Naval Association - ANL) the ICNF issued advice that reversing in the presence of orcas is acceptable and has presented advice that reversing in certain conditions may be effective. See web page here
Accordingly, the Cruising Association has now amended its protocol to include reversing (when sea conditions permit). See [www.theca.org.uk/orcas](http://www.theca.org.uk/orcas)
However, the CA cautions that
1.reversing in certain sea conditions can be dangerous;
2. the Spanish authorities have stated that reversing in the presence of orcas is illegal “except in an emergency”.
The CA will further consult with the Spanish authorities with the support and assistance of GTOA to seek clarification.
The scientists at GTOA are concerned that orcas may find a way to damage the rudder of a reversing yacht. It is important, therefore that any yacht reversing during an orca interaction submits a report giving as much detail as possible of the interaction, including at what stage reversing commenced (before the rudder is touched or after), whether they reversed in a straight line or in circles, and how the orcas reacted throughout.
Some reports indicate that reversing has not proven effective. If the CA receives detailed reports then we can try and assess best practice for the reversing measure in the event that the orcas do find a way to circumvent the manoeuvre (for example is straight line reversing more effective than reversing in a circle or the other way around?)
All reports received by the CA are publicly viewable (but anonymised). See [www.theca.org.uk/orcas/reports](http://www.theca.org.uk/orcas/reports) Filter by date to see the latest reports or reports for a particular month displayed on a map and click on the pin to see the full report. Comparative data can also be viewed at this location.
The CA welcomes the new collaboration between ANL and ICNF to find solutions to this problem and will be writing to ANL to offer support where required.
Yorkshire Paul
Member
CRUISING ASSOCIATION COMPARATIVE DATA UPDATE
After a little over 3 months the Cruising Association now has 71 interaction reports and 139 uneventful passage reports. Every anonymised report can be viewed (including skippers' comments) as well as comparative data at www.theca.org.uk/orcas/reports
The CA has warned against drawing any conclusions until enough reports are received, and although we feel we are still some way off achieving statistical significance we wanted to highlight possible patterns emerging.
Firstly, looking at antifoul colour it is interesting to note that 30% of the uneventful passage control group had black antifouling whereas 52% of those reporting interactions had black antifouling.
24% of the control group had copper antifouling compared to only 4% of the interaction reports.
So we need to watch this carefully as more reports are received to see whether those sporting black antifouling should change their colour scheme, and whether we should consider using copper (we have no commercial relationship!) Having said that, only 3% of the uneventful passage boats saw orcas on their passage. So did the copper antifoul users just get lucky and is this an erroneous pattern at an early stage in the project?
The statistics from reports received to date seem to suggest that turning the depth sounder off has little effect However, if the statistics continue to develop in the current proportions then there is more chance of suffering an interaction if you sail without autopilot - (65% of interactions happened under autopilot compared to 85% of the control group).
As we continue to say, it is too early to draw conclusions but we hope that this illustration demonstrates the benefit of the CA data gathering project and that we need more reports of both interactions and uneventful passages (through the worst affected areas as indicated from month to month at www.theca.org.uk/orcas ).
Please help us by reporting and encouraging others to report at www.theca.org.uk/orcas
After a little over 3 months the Cruising Association now has 71 interaction reports and 139 uneventful passage reports. Every anonymised report can be viewed (including skippers' comments) as well as comparative data at www.theca.org.uk/orcas/reports
The CA has warned against drawing any conclusions until enough reports are received, and although we feel we are still some way off achieving statistical significance we wanted to highlight possible patterns emerging.
Firstly, looking at antifoul colour it is interesting to note that 30% of the uneventful passage control group had black antifouling whereas 52% of those reporting interactions had black antifouling.
24% of the control group had copper antifouling compared to only 4% of the interaction reports.
So we need to watch this carefully as more reports are received to see whether those sporting black antifouling should change their colour scheme, and whether we should consider using copper (we have no commercial relationship!) Having said that, only 3% of the uneventful passage boats saw orcas on their passage. So did the copper antifoul users just get lucky and is this an erroneous pattern at an early stage in the project?
The statistics from reports received to date seem to suggest that turning the depth sounder off has little effect However, if the statistics continue to develop in the current proportions then there is more chance of suffering an interaction if you sail without autopilot - (65% of interactions happened under autopilot compared to 85% of the control group).
As we continue to say, it is too early to draw conclusions but we hope that this illustration demonstrates the benefit of the CA data gathering project and that we need more reports of both interactions and uneventful passages (through the worst affected areas as indicated from month to month at www.theca.org.uk/orcas ).
Please help us by reporting and encouraging others to report at www.theca.org.uk/orcas
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
I'm being roped in delivering a yacht Fal to Gib next spring having done this trips a few times twice solo I have to admit I'm not looking froward to it .
25931
Well-known member
I have not heard that it was because they were attacked but because they thought that the shortage of tunny was due, not to overfishing, but to the orcas.
RobbieW
Well-known member
Depends when you actually go, Vic. I get the idea its mainly the transient pod causing the trouble. That pod should stay north till about May so maybe wide around Biscay and make straight for St Vincent - good luck !
fisherman
Well-known member
We currently have tuna and orcas around the Lizard.
dansaskip
Well-known member
I did wonder if the rudder configuration of a yacht had any significance on Orca attacks, as my first thoughts that perhaps a keel hung rudder would be less of a target?
I have just had a look at the report at Orca Interaction and Uneventful Passage Report Results | CA and the figures for keel hung rudders seem to suggest no attacks. !
Have I got this right? Is this significant or is it just these days there are less boats sailing with keel hung rudders?
The highest % is attacks on spade type rudders - is this because they are most common or is that they are a more tempting target? - more resemblance to a fin of another creature or just more vulnerable?
Whatever I am a little relieved that my boat has a keel hung rudder (and copper coat antifouling as this seems also a factor)
I have just had a look at the report at Orca Interaction and Uneventful Passage Report Results | CA and the figures for keel hung rudders seem to suggest no attacks. !
Have I got this right? Is this significant or is it just these days there are less boats sailing with keel hung rudders?
The highest % is attacks on spade type rudders - is this because they are most common or is that they are a more tempting target? - more resemblance to a fin of another creature or just more vulnerable?
Whatever I am a little relieved that my boat has a keel hung rudder (and copper coat antifouling as this seems also a factor)
25931
Well-known member
lusitano
Active member
Smart, worryingly smart !
newtothis
Well-known member
How long until they realise that if they do that to a small yacht, a few bite-size meals will end up in the water.
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
I suspect the statistics you quote are far more to do with the numbers of spade rudders in yachts than any orca preference. So far, we’ve cruised from uk to just N of Lisbon and I don’t recall seeing more than one or two long keeled boats (if that) making their way S.
The Marina office in Nazare (where we are at the moment) said they’d never seen so many yachts making their way S at this time of year.
The Marina office in Nazare (where we are at the moment) said they’d never seen so many yachts making their way S at this time of year.