Opinions on DSC

[Gin]

I am about to buy a DSC ( until I read these posts on the subject).

I want a Silva S15 which I understood in its latest form has the facility to enable/disable the annoying electronic beeps alerting crew to an incoming message. Am I incorrect, for if so I don't want that annoying feature either /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[JonBrooks]

If you feel that a distress call is over the top, not sure why cause if it was me it would be the big red button evertime, why not then send send an all ships call?

Depending on if you choose "safety" or "urgency" will depend on the alarm heard.

I am not sure the HMGC would be that upset if you felt the red button needed pushing if you felt it was needed.

In times of trouble use all and every means at hand to summon help or stop the sittuation getting worse.

Although I don't support randon red button pushing!!

Regards

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if you are in the path of a large vessel and you cannot get out of its way - as your engine won't start - there is a large risk of collision - at which point you ARE in GRAVE DANGER and a Distress altert SHOULD be sent ...

[/ QUOTE ]Suit yourself, but sending a distress alert would be the last thing on my mind. A Ch16 call on the VHF, yes, and maybe abandon ship to the liferaft with the EPIRB, but a distress alert is meaningless without a subsequent distress message. That would then be properly answered by the CG, not the vessel about to run you down. By the time the CG has sorted out what has happened it is all over - given the scenario as portrayed.

[ QUOTE ]
S8d the collregs - a large ship is usually standon when your in a yacht

[/ QUOTE ]Only when constrained by draught and displaying the appropriate signals. Only a very small %age of my time is spent in such waters, but I suppose that some people do most of their sailing in those conditions. Generally, size of vessel does not confer stand-on status.

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
Although I don't support randon red button pushing!!

[/ QUOTE ]There seems to be a misunderstanding about the nature of a distress call. This is comprised of a distress alert followed by a distress message. Pressing the big red button is only the first part of the story and nobody will do anything for ages unless they get a distress message (telephony). Sure, push the red button before hopping into the life raft if you don't have time to send the message and your time and position will be recorded by the CG and, in due course, it would help SAR but don't expect to get rapid response. After all, the most likely assumption would be that the button had been pressed in error.

 

[fireball]

It all depends on the exact situation though doesn't it ...

I mean - if your in the direct path that is different to "in the shipping lanes without an engine" etc etc ..
As most ppl with DSC know - a distress alert has to be acknowledged so hopefully the ships crew will note the position of distress and realise they are on direct path ...

As you've no-doubt read, lots of ppl have tried raising ships via VHF without success, whilst others have succeeded ...

I don't have DSC yet, but if I was going to abandon my boat in the situation suggested then I would hit off any and every method of raising a distress call - including DSC - sitting in a liferaft IS another life threatening situation (unless it is in the test pool or you've converted it to a paddling pool ... now theres an idea!)

 

[fireball]

Then you might need to re-attend a DSC upgrade course ...
If you cannot stay at the nav station to transmit for whatever reason you might not be able to do a follow up voice distress call - CG should try and contact you via VHF, but their hardly gonna go off for a cuppa and wait to see if you respond ... its a DISTRESS alert .. exactly the same as if they get half a mayday call - they don't wait for the rest of the message.
Ok - so you might not get the ships course changed in time and it collides with your boat - sat in the middle of the channel with just an EPIRB and HH VHF .. at least if you've pressed the red button CG are then alerted and will expect a distress situation....

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have DSC yet, but if I was going to abandon my boat in the situation suggested then I would hit off any and every method of raising a distress call - including DSC -

[/ QUOTE ]Sure, but if you read back a few messages in this thread, you will see that it was being suggested that DSC was somehow better than a conventional VHF under these circumstances. I can't see any benefit at all - indeed I would probably call down the VHF handheld on Ch16 something like "Calling the Esso Tanker heading East at 15 kts this is yacht xxxx directly in front of you, you are about to hit us, I say again...." while taking whatever steps I could to get my vessel or the crew out of danger.

Have you yet done the DSC radio course?

 

[Anonymous]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok - so you might not get the ships course changed in time and it collides with your boat -

[/ QUOTE ]Which is EXACTLY the point I've been making /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Joe_Cole]

Re: Can someone tell me....

Can someone tell me when a DSC set is likely to receive an alarm? I was under the impression that it is likely to go off many times a day, but reading this thread I am beginning to wonder if it only goes off when somebody initiates a May Day or Pan Pan. If it is the later then on a summers day in my area it will be down to about 4 or 5 calls a day. Still too many, but better than I thought.

 

[jerryat]

Hi Lemain,

I find myself agreeing with you again. I have pondered of late as to whether to re-new my VHF licence at all. The boats been ashore for a major refit for the last seventeen months and when fitting the vhf back aboard, I suddenly thought, why??

I haven't used the thing more than 10 times in as many years, primarily because we hate the non-stop drivel that seems to be the norm, but also because a lot of our sailing is well offshore and out of range. In range we can use a mobile, though we never have yet! We also carry an epirb and have an HF transceiver if things go belly up.

From reading the various recent threads re DSC, it seems to me that this is an ill thought out system that seems to offer little more than we have now, and clearly frustrates and irritates many users. The many people who apparently either turn their radios off or in some other way prevent the alarms from being intrusive, clearly nullifies much of its purported advantages.

I have called up the odd ship, but only in the middle of the Pond and out of curiosity. Every ship has been delighted to have a brief chat (breaks the boredom I suppose) and ALL have aswered immediately. So my guess is that you are correct, and that a direct Ch16 call to a ship in our busy shipping lanes, in the 'imminent collision situation' under discussion, would have a far more immediate effect than any DSC alarm would.

Oh dear, seem to have talked myself into keeping it after all - at least for this year!! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cheers Jerry

 

[fireball]

Hi ...
Yes I have done the DSC course ... I only needed the VHF bit though - No .. I don't have DSC as I'm waiting to decide what the best course of action is...
I do think there is one major flaw in your call ... ships are not required to listen on chl 16 and a lot watch chl 13 instead (I think its 13) and even then it isn't nesersarily manned, so will be on a speaker ...
Your method also assumes you know the name or description of the ship.. surely if you have a red button you could do both? Cos you would be getting the attention of all the vessels in your area and the CG ... you can always cancel the distress alert if a collision is avoided...

 

[Rustyknight]

The Silva S15 has been mentioned in quite a few posts recently...... if you use the search facility on these forums you should find them.

I had been thinking about one, but........

 

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't want to be without a VHF but then again I hardly use the thing other than for listening to weather/safety reports and calling marinas. Years ago, when I took up sailing again, I phoned Falmouth coastguard to discuss the radio procedures for sailing from Falmouth to St Peter Port. I asked them about routine traffic reports and whether they would 'hand me over' or advise Cross Corsen of my arrival and it turned out that they did nothing whasoever with my report. They logged it and that was all! What is the point of making a report, then?

Mike Martin posted a message some months ago to the effect that the station licences will be free and downloadable in future, so it won't cost anything to have a conventional VHF on board.

I wonder what people are doing with their old VHFs? Maybe we should buy them up and sell them back when they discover how useless the DSC radios are? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Anonymous]

I took the Long Range Certificate last November which is heavily GMDSS oriented. It is worth knowing all this stuff and what it can do. But for the typical yachtsman in Sea Area 1 I honestly don't think that DSC VHF is the way to go. Neither did my instructor (who I will not now name for obvious reasons). No, ships are not required to listen on Ch16 and even when they did, many had the volume down or were busy doing something else. This hypothetical collision is not something that DSC will help with....at night you would use searchlights and flares, along with Ch16 and in the daytime you can see the type of vessel and describe it.

It's off topic, but as you said earlier, how did they get into this pickle? Drifting in no wind and a ship races down the Channel and tries to ram you!

 

[fireball]

true .... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Oh - when you find a use for DSC ... let me know ... meanwhile we'll stick with our old standard set /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[bigmart]

There are very few subjects that attract so much innacurate unnecessary drivel as DSC Radio. I have sailed on many boats, up & down the English Channel & in the Solent. The number of alarms I have heard can be counted on less than the fingers of half one hand.

I have to wonder at the mentality of a fool that suggests that DSC is somehow more dangerous than conventional VHF. Its just a VHF with some more sophisticated whistles & bells. If you don't like some of the add-ons then don't use them. OK some you cannot elect to ignore but thats hardly a chore.

All this venom regarding loud alarms is totally out of proportion to the discomfort caused.

The only subject I have seen that attracts more uninformed claptrap is the sailing attributes of the Macgreggor 26. That usually gets slated by a load of, so called sailors, who have done no more than seen a picture of one in a magazine.

the fact is that you won't regret the purchase of a DSC radio & you won't regret not purchasing one. If you ever get into the situation where a radio can help you all you need to do is use what you've got. You won't have time to think about the relative merits of a more sophisticated set.

Martin

 

[Robin]

[ QUOTE ]
There are very few subjects that attract so much innacurate unnecessary drivel as DSC Radio. I have sailed on many boats, up & down the English Channel & in the Solent. The number of alarms I have heard can be counted on less than the fingers of half one hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Because YOU haven't heard the alarms doesn't mean they do not exist! They certainly did exist last season and unless you are a freak with centipede feet for fingers there were rather more than you counted. Perhaps your radio range is rather more limited by mast height than others or your forays did not take you into the magic circle of Jobourg Traffic Control. We have a 50ft mast so our aerial is nearly 60ft up, we receive Jobourg Traffic transmissions routinely in Poole not just on freak occasions.

This season I have so far only made two channel crossings and heard just one alarm, that from Solent CG to preceed a new Strong Wind Warning, they did NOT use an alarm for subsequent repetitions of this warning. Jobourg Traffic WERE putting out repeated messages, announced on Ch16 then on Ch80 concerning ships in the Casquets TSS which were NOT this time preceeded by alarms, so maybe, just maybe, they have changed their procedures. We even managed to cross both ways with the DSC VHF still switched on, something which did NOT happen last year, though I was tempted to switch off once in range of the constant Solent 'radio check please' idiots.

[ QUOTE ]
All this venom regarding loud alarms is totally out of proportion to the discomfort caused.

[/ QUOTE ]

Each alarm requires manual action to cancel it at the set. If you are as would be normal in the cockpit that means someone has to go below to acknowledge the alarm and see what it was, which channel it wants you to listen to if it is relevant to your vessel and it's current position. This is all right and proper for a genuine MAYDAY, PAN PAN or vey urgent message, but NOT I venture to suggest for the 10th repeat of a position report for a deep draft vessel transitting Casquets TSS 65mls away. When also these alarms are received down in Biscay from Jobourg in the Channel and they hijacked the set from us listening to a weather forecast, took us to Ch80 where there was not even heavy breathing and did this several times, we did get a trifle miffed and there may have been some venom in the air too! Constant alarms for repetitions of messages are a real pain in bad weather when for each one someone has to go below to silence it, believe me on a rough passage that doesn't happen too often before the set is switched off, the same too if someone is trying to sleep below at night. Big ships do not have these problems, if the alarms went off in the Captain's cabin I would bet he would have a few words of wisdom to pass on too.

I will add that I heard several MAYDAY calls and even more PAN PAN calls last year - NONE of which were preceeded by DSC alarms, just voice on Ch16 as before. All of the DSC alarms we heard last year were for warnings from Coastguards, Navy vessels or Traffic Control stations.

But HOPEFULLY commonsense WILL prevail and someone really has had a quiet word with stations that were using DSC alarms too readily, I reserve judgement on that until later in the season but so far so good.

I'm sorry if you think this is drivel but I'm just reporting what I personally found over about 2,200mls sailed last season, not hearsay but fact.

Robin

 

[BrendanS]

Mart,
Have to say that on X-channel trips, that alarms are unwanted nuisance, and involved crew members on watch diving below to turn off, and far too many of them.

 

[Ships_Cat]

the issue seems to lie with those issuing the alarms rather than the equipment?

I agree the alarms seem, by all accounts, to be being abused by some shore stations - should only be used for distress and urgency.

As for the suggestion by another poster that it could pay to wait until the standard is changed, well the ITU standard for Class D VHF was last changed in 2004 so I think it is safe to assume there will not be another change for some while. The cycle for the 2004 change started back in the 1990's!

John

 

[bigmart]

I thought that would put the cat amongst the pidgeons.

Whilst some may have had minor discomfort, I do think that these comments about alarms are somewhat over the top. I doubt if Mast hieght really has an effect on the amount of alarms you receive because, lets just say that, one of the boats I sail on only has eight feet clearance under the Itchen Bridge at Mean High Water Springs.

Like I said, I have not heard enough alarms, in the areas complained about, to justify the venom expressed here. The issue of automatic alarms used in the GMDSS system is a whole different problem. Those who think that VHF Channel 16 & DSC offer vastly different degrees of safety may be somewhat disolusioned.

The fact is that a DSC set will offer the both ways of hailing help & a conventional VHF only one.

Personally I have never crossed channel, in a boat under 30 feet, that had a radar & I have crossed many times. Some suggest that this is madness. I'm still here to annoy people.

Martin