Opinions on DSC

davel

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I guess it's time I started thinking about upgrading to a DSC set.
I noticed that Compass are selling one at £115.
Does anyone have any experience of this set that they could share?
Any other recommendations?
 

Rustyknight

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I too am thinking of "upgrading"..... and have got as far as asking for an MMSI number.

Recently, there's been quite a discussion on these forums regarding various makes and models, so a search should produce some good results!

One major factor to take into account seems to be NMEA compatability problems, so it might be best to see how your existing GPS/Nav systems are set up, and then check that against the various DSC units available.

Better to buy a more expensive DSC that has the right software version, than buy a cheapy one that might not!

Good hunting!
 
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Anonymous

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The big problem with DSC for yachtsmen is that you cannot turn down the volume of incoming alerts so you jump out of your skin every time the CG sends a message. It's totally inappropriate for yachts. Many have taken a pair of cutters to the speaker leads and others have thrown the wretched sets overboard. Now we wait for the authorities to realise that they have made a bad mistake, re-write the specs and wait for a manufacturer to make suitable equipment.

Meanwhile, the CG and all commercial ships continue to monitor Ch16 so what's the benefit of having DSC? Wait - at least a year or until the situation becomes clearer.
 

petercornish

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I wish that we could be sure that all commercial vessels continued to monitor Ch 16. A mate of mine almost got run down by a car carrier last month despite the fact that he hailed them on 16 and 13.

The biggest reason for getting DSC is if you go further than 35 - 50 miles from the coast. In this area if you get into trouble gthe coastguard, who do still monitor 16 although not as a dedicated watch, may not hear you and you have to rely on commercial or other vessels for help. Since Feb 2005 they are not required to monitor Channel 16 and I am sure that many do not, DSC will be the only way to let them know that you are in trouble.

I agree with the noise level, as much as I love it, have you heard the Icom M601. I demonstrated one at the Lowestoft boat show and it almost emptied the building, it was that loud that most people thought it was a fire alarm!
 

davel

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Thanks for that. I've heard some pretty disgruntled comments about DSC so maybe it is worth hanging on a bit longer.
Is there any activity regarding changes in spec to address any of the problems identified?
Any timetable for change?
 
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Anonymous

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[ QUOTE ]
I wish that we could be sure that all commercial vessels continued to monitor Ch 16.

[/ QUOTE ] I've crossed the channel four times in the last few months and frequently heard commercials calling each other on Ch16 and getting a response, so some do.[ QUOTE ]
A mate of mine almost got run down by a car carrier last month despite the fact that he hailed them on 16 and 13.

[/ QUOTE ]What did your mate hope to achieve by calling the car carrier on the RT? Surely if the other vessel was not going to follow the colregs (and quite a few don't for yachts) then all he had to do was alter course or speed? I don't see how DSC comes into this.[ QUOTE ]
The biggest reason for getting DSC is if you go further than 35 - 50 miles from the coast.

[/ QUOTE ]Indeed, and that's when MF/HF radio comes into its own. But these days most people would be better off with a GPS EPIRB. Or use an Iridium and call Falmouth coastguard from anywhere in the world - no licence required, no more expensive than the SSB kit, and has other non-emergency uses. Although I have SSB I wouldn't try to send a distress alert via mine because it hasn't got DSC - I should use my mini-M phone to call Falmouth (from anywhere in the world) who would become the controlling emergency station and then use the SSB on the frequencies directed by Falmouth.
 
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Anonymous

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[ QUOTE ]
Is there any activity regarding changes in spec to address any of the problems identified? Any timetable for change?

[/ QUOTE ]There are two forum members who know about this - one is an ex employee of OfCom and the other is a senior employee of Icom UK. Sadly they have both come in for some totally unjustified (and downright rude) stick from people for doing nothing more than helping to explain the current legislation - they don't write the legislation, but you'd think they did from the stick they have had. I think they might be around - I hope so - in which case they would know if anyone does.

For myself, I shall not buy DSC until I am required to, until this mess is sorted out. If enough yachtsmen vote with their wallets the manufactuers will have to put pressure on the officials. Remember, this is an international thing, not a UK issue, and the British government couldn't do much by itself other than ensure that the CG still monitors Ch16.
 

castaway

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My Old Sailor RT took about 10 seconds to brief the dumbest crew member on how to use.

My new DSC unit is more or less impossible for a new user to understand... I now just say.. "lift the flap and press the button", which I suppose is what its supposed to do.

I wish I had the old radio back.

Nick
 

cliff

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I personally will not be purchasing a DSC set until there is a facility to adjust the alarm volume. If they become mandatory and there is still the problem with the alarm volume then by all means i will fit the cheapest nastiest one I can find and leave it switched off or fit a separate power feed and deliberately blow the fuse - no spare fuse on board sir, had to use the VHF! There is no point in having a safety device or system if people turn it off because it is a nuisance
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duncan

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As alarms are supposed to be just that the issue seems to lie with those issuing the alarms rather than the equipment?

As the main sourses listed here have been the TSS and Cherbourg TC this shouldn't cause too many problems for those boating in Scotland.

Biggest benefits I can see to date are
(1) ability to call at all on the South Coast as 16 is solid with radio checks (another user failing!)
(2) the ability to call a group of craft without calling them one by one and blocking 16, 77 or whatever
(3) as already said the total lack of training required in a real emergency - I have every confidence that my 12 year old can push a red button if I am on the floor going red in the face, but absolutely none in here switching pages on the GPS to find the position, calling Portland and giving them the position etc.

There are weaknesses, not least the lack of a designated calling channel when you know their name or position but not their MMSI number, but it's a big step forwards not backwards.

It is however change..............
 

Micky

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Have just replaced my old Vhf outdated system with A new Cobra DSC.
With some help from DUNCAN, it is now coupled to my GPS and working real nice.
 
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Anonymous

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[ QUOTE ]
(1) ability to call at all on the South Coast as 16 is solid with radio checks (another user failing!)

[/ QUOTE ]When and where does this happen? I've never come across anything like that. Solent CG ask people to use Ch67 for radio checks and the message seems to be getting through.
[ QUOTE ]
(2) the ability to call a group of craft without calling them one by one and blocking 16, 77 or whatever

[/ QUOTE ]That's not a service that interests me, or the majority and I have never heard Ch16 blocked but such activity.
[ QUOTE ]
(3) as already said the total lack of training required in a real emergency - I have every confidence that my 12 year old can push a red button

[/ QUOTE ]Why not buy a GPS EPIRB. Purpose built and completely automatic with its own power supply.
 

Malcb

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Replaced and old VHF when I bought my boat 2 months ago with a Silva S10 DSC. Linked it easily to a Magellan Colour handheld chart plotter so that it receives Lat & Long from the chart plotter. No problems, in connecting as both instruments have wiring instructions, only 2 wires to identify and connect.

very impressed with the Silva radio as the fist mike also has alpha/numeric keys on it for entering in MMSI numbers (some radios do not have an easy method of inputting MMSI numbers and decriptions), also for changing channels which helps when I operate it from the cockpit.

As regards the DSC alert ring, in 2 months of having the set I must have been unlucky, I haven't heard a DSC alert once; and yes I have had the set on and used it frequently.
 

Codfather

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Having just purchased a DSC set, Navman 7100, and read the user manual, unusual I know! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

You can in fact turn all alarms off or even set the level that is acceptable except the Distress alarm which, when all said and done is there for the purpose.

You only get one chance and I hope that someone hears my cry for help when I need it!
 

JonBrooks

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Lemain

Firstly thank you, both Mike and I are only trying to help.
The advice we try to give is to try and help with a huge amount of dis-information that is floating about.

The UK HMCG issued a memo at Southampton Boat show, two years ago.
This stated that those in charge of the less busy Coast Guard stations could choose to move to a load speaker watch of CH16. Before this they were on a headset watch.
April this year all UK HMCG stations were to move to a speaker watch.
It was decided that due to a number of factors this would be pushed back, if memory serves to 2007.

At this time all vessels should maintain a watch of CH16, in practice your guess is as good as mine.

What I tell people when we give our "DSC The Facts" talk is this.
If you are boating in UK waters you will be ok without DSC for a good while.
If you are boating overseas, especially where the local Coast Guard where never that hot on watching 16 when they had to the consider DSC as a must.

IMHO if you boat in a high commercial traffic area then I would go DSC now.
All commercial ships must carry DSC.

From the pleasure point of view, DSC will never be forced on you.
There is no requirement for you to carry any radio at all.

Both Mike and I took on board the complaints about DSC alerts from a certain Coast Guard over sea's. This info was passed onto the UK HMCG.
We do listen and as we both are keen boaters it affects us to.

Regards

Jon
 
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Anonymous

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[ QUOTE ]
IMHO if you boat in a high commercial traffic area then I would go DSC now.All commercial ships must carry DSC.

[/ QUOTE ]I don't understand why the presence of high levels of commercial traffic should affect whether I have DSC, ordinary VHF or no radio at all. Commercials never call me and I have never been called by any 'official' regading TSS or traffic issues. I can't think how they would call me, anyway, other than 'yacht in position xxx heading yyy at ss knots'. I've never heard such a transmission.

[ QUOTE ]
From the pleasure point of view, DSC will never be forced on you.
There is no requirement for you to carry any radio at all.

[/ QUOTE ]I would consider it irresponsible for me to go to sea in a vessel the size of mine without a VHF (and GPS and radar). In the event of an incident I suspect that I would face civil charges of lack of due diligence or care. I am lucky in that I have a Simrad Shipmate RS 8300 that sends a DSC distress alert on Ch70 (including GPS position) but cannot receive or send any other DSC messages.[ QUOTE ]
Both Mike and I took on board the complaints about DSC alerts from a certain Coast Guard over sea's. This info was passed onto the UK HMCG.
We do listen and as we both are keen boaters it affects us to.

[/ QUOTE ]I know, and your input in this forum is greatly valued.
 

duncan

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in the order already established -

1. Poole - we sit within both Portland and Solent radio reception rather too neatly. Re radio checks - we are aware of this; we spend all weekend listening to either Solent safety transmissions advising traffic to use 67 for radio checks or them responding to one (after above) and telling them to use 67 next time.......
2. I agree - 77 and 72 are bearing the brunt of this traffic currently. DSC will remove much of this so good news allround!
3. Absolutely agree! If I travelled offshore more, and had a liferaft, an Epirb would be at the top of my list. However as my DSC VHF does this fine I am happy use it as designed.

I remain of the opinion that there are some very positive things that DSC enables.

I agree that there are some user issues to be improved but work has at least started.

Finally, and probably but not in response to one of your comments so please bear with me, if you push the button with a large ship bearing down on you he will have you flashing on his navigation screen straight away - which has to be a significant improvement on a hurried voice message on 16 addressed to 'the vessel at ............ about to run me down please note my engine won't start'.
 
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Anonymous

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[ QUOTE ]
...if you push the button with a large ship bearing down on you he will have you flashing on his navigation screen straight away - which has to be a significant improvement on a hurried voice message on 16 addressed to 'the vessel at ............ about to run me down please note my engine won't start'.

[/ QUOTE ]Sending a DSC alert is not the appropriate action to take in those circumstances in any case.

Firstly, the colregs require the stand on vessel to stand on until there is an imminent risk of collision, when the stand on vessel must take avoiding action. i.e. you alter course or speed, you do not send a radio message.

Secondly, it would take you an age to send an appropriate DSC alert. Try it and you will see what I mean. Is it "distress" - i.e. you are in grave and imminent danger and require immediate assistance? No, so what sort of alert should it be? You will have to programme it in - if your set will let you, the sets you are allowed to use with the restricted VHF certificate do not have full functionality, I can't remember what options you have for non-distress alerts but "you are about to run me down" certainly isn't one of them! In any case, by the time the ship had sorted out the nature of the problem and taken action it would be too late.

Don't forget that a communication via DSC comprises two actions - the 'alert' and the 'message'. You must not confuse the two. Ch16 is much quicker if you want to shout an urgent alarm to a very close vessel.

Contacting commercial ships when you are worried about conflict is not generally the right action. Fog would be the exception, or where several vessels are involved. In the case of fog, heave to or go dead slow until the danger has passed.
 

fireball

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I think if you are in the path of a large vessel and you cannot get out of its way - as your engine won't start - there is a large risk of collision - at which point you ARE in GRAVE DANGER and a Distress altert SHOULD be sent ...

The question would be raised in how you got yourself into that situation in the first place.

No point waiting till you've been hit now is there?!

S8d the collregs - a large ship is usually standon when your in a yacht and you must not assume they have seen you. Always assume the other boat is run by idiots and you'll be fine!
 
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