Onboard Defibrillator

lustyd

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I don't disagree, but those medieval techniques saved my life and gave me both more life and more days. They told my wife, "He isn't well enough to operate, and he may not survive, but if we don't he certainly won't survive."
I'm not arguing with that at all. I was simply pointing out that "the best we have" isn't the same as "the best we could have". Those medieval techniques saved your life because the medical profession have prevented better techniques being created and adopted.

Just one example of an engineer coming up with a solution which medical professionals fought tooth and nail to stop because it didn't fit with their world view.
How I repaired my own heart
 
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The sad thing is that nobody actually knows. The medical community are so unwilling to admit a lack of understanding that we're probably hundreds of years behind where we could have been. The vast majority of the population believe the heart is a pump making blood flow around the body, while any plumber could demonstrate why that can't be the case so the masses are clearly not qualified or educated enough to debate such topics in the first place. The sheer quantity of "information" is ridiculous, and all of it is contradictory so by definition the vast majority of information on the subject is incorrect. There's a great book, "Black box thinking" comparing medicine to aerospace and the contrast is stark. Aeroplanes are extremely safe because ego was taken out of that system decades ago and mistakes are considered facts to be investigated. To those bickering about causes above, I suggest reading the book.
I agree re the airline industry and safety. As to the rest, you've been wrong since William Hervey.
 
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Oh yes it is. Mortality is a different issue, which I did not refer to. It is improving thanks to the wonders of stents, by-pass operations, drugs and excellent emergency care. The underlying condition is worsening. It is not getting better, which was my point:

Heart & Circulatory Disease Statistics 2020
Probably because we are living longer. Stable IHD is a relatively benign condition, so even if more of it, it's not so bad. I'd wager an awful lot of the posters here, given the age demographic, will have some atheroma in the coronary arteries. We are living longer with ischaemia, and that's no bad thing.
 
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Of course, some might say that these medieval techniques are diverting attention away from finding better options. Until the medical community evolves away from the knife being option 1 we'll make no progress at all. We could also do with moving away from the idea that more days on the planet is the ultimate goal, rather than more life.
What sorts of stents did they use in the Middle Ages, and what would you propose instead. Please enlighten us.
 
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I'm not arguing with that at all. I was simply pointing out that "the best we have" isn't the same as "the best we could have". Those medieval techniques saved your life because the medical profession have prevented better techniques being created and adopted.

Just one example of an engineer coming up with a solution which medical professionals fought tooth and nail to stop because it didn't fit with their world view.
How I repaired my own heart
Tell us what this "best" is. Please.
 

lustyd

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You'll have to use your imagination, unfortunately we still live in the world where the medical community prevents progress and covers up mistakes so we'll never know what we're missing until they allow a change in that system. When things go well it's "science" or "skill" when things go badly it's "bad luck, they were beyond saving" with almost zero accountability. There's a great example at the start of the book where a nurse could have saved a life but the doctors ignored her with no explanation required. Suffice to say "best" wouldn't involve an advanced form of butchery to cut out the bit that seems at fault, nor the addition of various patented chemicals with the hope of a good outcome. There is very little difference between modern surgery and the days when barbers chopped bits off/out of people aside from a few years at uni becoming a member of the club.
 

Elessar

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I’m sure those more qualified than me as an old paramedic will be along but a few thoughts…

What training are you getting?
What are you doing about servicing?
Do the potential crew have CPR training?
What are you planning on doing if a defibrillation is successful - and even in professional hands they’re not as good outcomes as on TV. (In 15 years as a paramedic I can count on one hand how many lived to return to a near normal life. I lost count of how many I attended, but bare in mind most were a while before we got there.)
Most cardiac arrests are successful due to supporting drugs.
Some arrests are not able to benefit from defibrillation.

Not trying to pee on your parade but they are things that need to be considered.

W.
You are peeing. Short time to defibrillation improves outcomes.
They are idiot proof. Adults delay use or don’t try through fear which is the benefit of training but if there’s a kid around then it will be fine.
Yes they don’t always work. No reason not to have one. They increase chance of survival. Fact.
 

PilotWolf

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You are peeing. Short time to defibrillation improves outcomes.
They are idiot proof. Adults delay use or don’t try through fear which is the benefit of training but if there’s a kid around then it will be fine.
Yes they don’t always work. No reason not to have one. They increase chance of survival. Fact.

Yes but if you don't have the on going care as others better qualified have said it's delaying the inevitable.

Trust me there are idiots who weren't selected to make that claim.

PW
 

lustyd

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The same could be said of sewing up a wound with a needle and thread. First aid is all about doing what you can when you can. If we all relied on trained professional care then a lot more people would die at sea!
 

Supine Being

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Yes but if you don't have the on going care as others better qualified have said it's delaying the inevitable.

Trust me there are idiots who weren't selected to make that claim.

PW
I had a really interesting chat a couple of weeks ago with a doctor about to set off towards St. Lucia on the ARC with her husband in a few weeks. We talked about the medicine chest, what she bought and how she went about it. She made a decision not to include a debrillilator for the simple reason that if you bring someone back from defibrillation, they will be very poorly indeed and require hospitalisation. If you're days or weeks away from port, her rationale was that your goose is very probably cooked.
 

Elessar

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I had a really interesting chat a couple of weeks ago with a doctor about to set off towards St. Lucia on the ARC with her husband in a few weeks. We talked about the medicine chest, what she bought and how she went about it. She made a decision not to include a debrillilator for the simple reason that if you bring someone back from defibrillation, they will be very poorly indeed and require hospitalisation. If you're days or weeks away from port, her rationale was that your goose is very probably cooked.
That doctor clearly didn’t complete the module on risk assessment. Stupid statement frankly.
 

Sandy

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That doctor clearly didn’t complete the module on risk assessment. Stupid statement frankly.
Really? If defibrillators are so great why do ambulances take people to hospital? Perhaps if the patient could stroll into the Cardiac clinic in two or three weeks the Consultant Cardiologist will see them then.
 

grumpy_o_g

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Yes but if you don't have the on going care as others better qualified have said it's delaying the inevitable.

Trust me there are idiots who weren't selected to make that claim.

PW

If you are talking about saving lives you are always delaying the inevitable. The question is for how long and will your efforts minimise damage or worsen it.
 

Elessar

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Really? If defibrillators are so great why do ambulances take people to hospital? Perhaps if the patient could stroll into the Cardiac clinic in two or three weeks the Consultant Cardiologist will see them then.
Is called risk mitigation not risk elimination.
People die wearing life jackets. So don’t bother with them. Same logic.
 
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