Onboard Defibrillator

[mm42]

They’re good to have but be aware that they’re sometimes ineffective on boats due to the vibration (usually of an engine, might be reduced under sail) making a shockable rhythm difficult for the AED to detect.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

They’re good to have but be aware that they’re sometimes ineffective on boats due to the vibration (usually of an engine, might be reduced under sail) making a shockable rhythm difficult for the AED to detect.

There's also the issue that they won't work if the patient is wet with salt water!

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

I've spent the last week or so at the Mayo Clinic with my son who was having open heart surgery. I myself had a minor heart attack 9 years ago and I have 1 stent. As you might imagine there has been a lot of talk about the risk of cardiac arrest and I got a strong recommendation for a relatively cheap idiot proof personal defibrillator which I've just ordered and plan to carry on the boat. Here's a link for anyone who may be interested.

AED Home and Personal Use Defibrillator - American AED

WHY? For crying out loud. How many cardiac arrests on a boat result in a return to normal life?

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

There is a difference between a heart attack (myocardial infarction) and a cardiac arrest.

The first certainly likely to be painful and distressing, the second you probably won’t know anything about it.

W.

BUt the first leads sometimes to the second.

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

I haad open heart surgery a handful of years ago, but for a valve repair. So I was told that my arteries were "pristine". (From which I gather that my chances of a heart attack are no more than anyone else's, especially if they have not had the cardiology!). A few years after that I was given a pacemaker at short notice. I gathered that there are two types: I have the type that does not have defib capability and is regarded by DVLA as much less of a risk...

I'd say that if your arteries are pristine, your risk is lower than people of your age otherwise.

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

Absolutely! My thought too. Basically, a useless piece of kit on a yacht.

 

[PilotWolf]

BUt the first leads sometimes to the second.

Indeed.

W.

 

[mjcoon]

I'd say that if your arteries are pristine, your risk is lower than people of your age otherwise.

Now it's just a matter of convincing my insurers...

 

[PilotWolf]

Now it's just a matter of convincing my insurers...

An ex collegue had a heart transplant and had a hard time convincing the USCG he should still be allowed to hold a medical and retain his captain license.

I think eventually his surgeon wrote a rather blunt letter saying he was probably fitter than most who also had a medical and to stop bugging him to keep signing him (the captain) as fit. I think for a while it was a condition that he had another qualified captain on board all the time.

W.

 

[penfold]

The MCA are absurdly risk-averse when it comes to some medical conditions and issuing of an ENG1(seafarer's medical), no doubt the USCG are much the same.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The MCA are absurdly risk-averse when it comes to some medical conditions and issuing of an ENG1(seafarer's medical), no doubt the USCG are much the same.

Perhaps not risk averse enough. When I did my first aid course before going to Antarctica, it was openly acknowledged that the category of staff most at risk of heart trouble was ship's crews, because the medical requirements were less stringent than for base and scientific staff, to the extent that practice scenarios were of ship's crew exhibiting symptoms! There were also issues about less healthy lifestyles aboard ship.

 

[Graham376]

There is a difference between a heart attack (myocardial infarction) and a cardiac arrest.
The first certainly likely to be painful and distressing, the second you probably won’t know anything about it.
W.

As well as watching my father and a close friend die from them, when we had the rest home heart attacks/failure of various types were a regular event so I've seen more deaths than I care to remember. I wouldn't want to be resuscitated.

 

[Zing]

Prevention is better than treatment. All this disease comes from the diet and so much of the wrong food is just what they tell you is good to eat.

 

[PilotWolf]

Joking now but…

There are many female crew that can give me mouth to mouth as I expire!

Sorry S! I still love ya.

W

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Not being in the situation of IR, I can't easily think what my feelings would be about going offshore with a heart condition. Following what others have said, the contribution of a defibrillator to one's chances of survival must be pretty small, but if having one helps them to feel better about continuing to sail then it would be worthwhile. In my view, it largely comes down to statistics. What proportion of one's time is spent sailing? Barring accidental stress, this should tell you what the chances are of having an health emergency on passage (or during any other activity ).

Whilst not having the medical background johnalison does I have had a heart and have a pretty high risk. I would say talk to your cardiologist and your GP/family physician and take there advice medically but never underestimate the importance of feeling good about. Not long after I was diagnosed with a silent heart attack I had to go do a stress test. Before I followed the nurse to the room I grabbed my GTN spray and she said "Oh, you've got your comfort blanket? Good" . Since then I've tried to avoid it affecting my life as much as possible but I won't hesitate to grab any opportunity to make myself feel more comfortable - never underestimate the importance of how you feel. It took me a while to get my head around the fact that I'd had a heart attack and wasn't allowed to pilot an a/c any more but, once I had, I just got on with my life.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

WHY? For crying out loud. How many cardiac arrests on a boat result in a return to normal life?

I would think quite a few, especially if some specialised first aid is available. MCI's are not always fatal, even if treatment isn't available immediately. Having said, getting treatment as fast as possible is obviously essential - basically your heart is no longer working properly if you've had an MCI. If nothing else a defibrillator will reassure that your heart is beating normally after severe chest pain (which can be caused by lots of things). If you know your at risk your mind can play tricks whether it' really indigestion/wind or even just you feeling a bit off. anything that makes you feel more comfortable is good. Not only that but most boats spend a surprisingly small amount of time a long way from help. I would guess most boats spend pretty much all their time within a few hours of a helicopter ride to hospital. Having a defib available on a yacht could easily save a life. For someone who is at risk I would say it's more likely to save him on his boat than a liferaft.

 

[Irish Rover]

Prevention is better than treatment. All this disease comes from the diet and so much of the wrong food is just what they tell you is good to eat.

My first reaction was to tell you how utterly stupid you are knowing as I do that genetics are the main player in heart disease but then I figured that stupidity might also be a genetic condition so I decided to give you a a pass.

 

[PilotWolf]

I would think quite a few, especially if some specialised first aid is available. MCI's are not always fatal, even if treatment isn't available immediately. Having said, getting treatment as fast as possible is obviously essential - basically your heart is no longer working properly if you've had an MCI. If nothing else a defibrillator will reassure that your heart is beating normally after severe chest pain (which can be caused by lots of things). If you know your at risk your mind can play tricks whether it' really indigestion/wind or even just you feeling a bit off. anything that makes you feel more comfortable is good. Not only that but most boats spend a surprisingly small amount of time a long way from help. I would guess most boats spend pretty much all their time within a few hours of a helicopter ride to hospital. Having a defib available on a yacht could easily save a life. For someone who is at risk I would say it's more likely to save him on his boat than a liferaft.

As I said a MCI is different to a cardiac arrest.

Things have have apparent improved since I was practising as a paramedic.

I hate to say it but a lot of the post is fake news. I’m a few sheets to the wind but I think there are a couple of resident posters who can explain.

PW

 

[SaltIre]

I have crewed across the Atlantic on an expedition yacht which had an AED on board. The owner is a retired head of an A&E departement and is pretty certain it can make a difference. There was also a cardiologist on board on that trip, I have never felt safer at sea ?

I went to the North Pole by submarine - they reckoned it improved safety to take a Doctor with them... I didn't feel very safe.

 

[Stemar]

I would think quite a few, especially if some specialised first aid is available. MCI's are not always fatal, even if treatment isn't available immediately. Having said, getting treatment as fast as possible is obviously essential - basically your heart is no longer working properly if you've had an MCI. If nothing else a defibrillator will reassure that your heart is beating normally after severe chest pain (which can be caused by lots of things). If you know your at risk your mind can play tricks whether it' really indigestion/wind or even just you feeling a bit off. anything that makes you feel more comfortable is good. Not only that but most boats spend a surprisingly small amount of time a long way from help. I would guess most boats spend pretty much all their time within a few hours of a helicopter ride to hospital. Having a defib available on a yacht could easily save a life. For someone who is at risk I would say it's more likely to save him on his boat than a liferaft.

Heart attacks, yes. Cardiac arrests not so many. If you're breathing, you don't need a defib. It's been a while, but I don't recall that they did anything other than say there's a shockable rhythm or there isn't. It won't tell you anything else - that needs an ECG and someone who knows what they're doing to analyse the output.

ANY severe chest pain may be a heart attack (there are other symptoms - look them up), and needs urgent hospital treatment. Get it, and you'll probably be fine. Brush it off, and your heart will most probably be permanently damaged. When I was in hospital a few years ago, there was a guy there who lived in the Channel Islands. He'd had mild symptoms of a heart attack. He was ex-military, not that old and very fit, and was busy, so he ignored it. Next day, the pain was still there, so he spoke to his GP, who ripped him a new one and packed him off on an air ambulance to the mainland hospital. His heart function was significantly impaired and would never get better.